Verilog Editor.

On a sunny day (Mon, 07 Nov 2005 15:28:26 -0500) it happened Eli Hughes wrote in :

I do not get this, I have written perhaps a million or more lines of C code, and quite some lines of verilog code now, and I use 'joe' editor in Linux. It has NO special mode for C, no 'syntax coloring', none of these things, ident: yes. It takes .0000Xms to start and has wordstar like keys (for the old CP/M guys), Even emacs takes ages to start compared to it. In my_view(C) if you cannot see '{' and '}' or align it, or 'wire', or 'module' or ANY language specific word, then you are not suited as programmer. Now SOME programmers in C leave out all spaces: var=a+2/4*36; Do not do that, write as a natural language, use separate lines for complicated things, we do not have to worry about space: memory is cheaper these days. (in the beginning when programming we even combined bits in an integer in asm, no we use 64 bits as flag...) I do NOT want to start a [verilog] editor war, just point out ways to less suffering.

suffering.

Tools are meant to make life easier. Yes you can pound nails with a rock. You could build a house with it and get very good at it. But then again, its also really nice to have a compressor and a framing nailer. Both perform the same operation, but one lets you get things done faster.

In my_view(C) if you cannot see '{' and '}' or align it, or 'wire', > or 'module' or ANY language specific word, then you are not suited > as programmer.

This is somewhat arrogant. Yes, I can use some crappy UNIX text editor. But I choose to use something to make like life a little easier. Why would I not want to use new tools? My vision is bad enough. I like having things highlighted. It also makes things easier for others to look at code that they are not familiar with.

Thats like saying that a Doctor is a a good Doctor is he Doesn't use the same tools from 30 years ago. Ya, they worked at the time but there are much better tools now that make operations easier.

-Eli

I use UltraEdit. Version 11.20 opens in less than 2 seconds, can open a project of about 120 files in ~25 seconds, supports about a zillion languages, including Verilog, and does syntax coloring, code folding, etc. (I even have syntax coloring for Xilinx UCF files.) At $39.95, it costs the same as Zeus. And when you report a bug, they fix it, quickly.

Dollar for dollar it's the best editor I've ever used. I have no financial interest in the company; I'm just a satisfied customer.

Bob Perlman Cambrian Design Works

I thought gVim was the editor of choice!

On a sunny day (Mon, 07 Nov 2005 16:00:40 -0500) it happened Eli Hughes wrote in :

OK I respect your view, but I also respect my view and experience and that even more ;-) So, you do not seem to get what I am hinting at :-) Some observations: This syntax highlighting / coloring has nothing to do with vision sharpness, we have even less color sensors in the eye then BW, and these need more light too, so reading color takes more brain cycles! It has to do with the way the neural net processes the data. In the even older days (of editors) there were no full screen editors, and one worked at a line at the time while you hade a VERY clear picture in your head of the whole source (text)! When we get really decadent and use a MS product with very small windows with graphics that 'pre-types' half a C++ function for you (Visual Studio), then yes that may seem easy, especially to the beginner. However *I* personally fuind it annoying when using these windows in windows in windows that you constantly need to scroll even on a 19 inch monitor.. I use Linux and old fvwm (window manager)with 9 rxvt terminals and 9 virtual screens. Random access, HUGE characters, you'd like it! Then use a makefile, drop that GUI. No, I am not a GUI hater, no way, write so many GUI programs, but it needs to be done in the right way. GUI is handy for SOME applications, like moving modules around perhaps in a diagram, and buttons, sliders, graphs, what not. But not for text oriented code. For TEXT oriented code you need (are best of with) a TEXT oriented editor, no mouse, no, set mouse traps, get rid of these.. Fingers on the keyboard. I admit I use cut and paste. Use best of both worlds. But if you CANNOT have the code picture in your head, forgat about programming. Hey I use 'search' in my sources, no scrolling..... be a sharp shooter, eye that ONE detail, find it, write it / fix it. And have the big picture always in your head, else let go and do not write until you are clear about that.

In passing I came across this thread so as the author of the Zeus editor I though I might add my 2 cents worth.

IMHO Syntax highlighting does make coding easier, but like so many things, it takes some practice and it is not for everybody.

For example I personally have bad habit of transposing characters when I type too fast. This means when I try to type this:

true

I end up with this:

ture

With syntax highlighting this mistake is very easy to detect, because the word "true" is a keyword and I know it must be blue in color.

I don't know if I'm thinking any harder, but I do know that after years of reading syntax highlighted code, I find it very hard to read mono colored code.

Similarly, I was one of those coders that never saw a need for features like code folding, but now that I have been using it for a few months, I do find there are times when it come in handy (ie finding missing brace characters, hiding unwanted text, copying or deleting a block of code).

This hold true even today. IMHO any programmer that can create a "clear picture" the code in their head will be more productive than those that can't.

The fact that modern day editors display more information might discourage some programmers from forming this view, but IMHO this has more to do with the quality of the programmer than the tool they are using.

I agree 100%. The Microsoft VC++ has an amazing ability of wasting screen real-estate, forcing the programmer to code in a space the size of a postage stamp :)

But it is unfair to think all tools are like MSVC++. Zeus definitely does not impose these types of constraints on the user.

Zeus, like many other programming editors will quite happily let you use make files.

Once again I agree totally.

Zeus is just such an editor, which I assume is why Eli uses it ;)

Always.

Agreed, but this has more to do with the individual rather than the tool they are using.

Jussi Jumppanen Author: Zeus for Windows Programmer's IDE

I have been using the above editor for 2 or three years with VHDL.. the best editor at the price IMO

Simon

Just curious. For the same price, does UltraEdit also come with integrate version control, class browsing, intellisensing and macro scripting?

The last time I checked, for these extra programming features you needed to move up to the UltraEdit Studio which comes in at twice the price.

Zeus is no different in this regard.

Jussi Jumppanen Author: Zeus for Windows Programmer's IDE

Plain old UltraEdit has macro scripting. For version control, I use the Tortoise extension for subversion. As for the other features you mentioned, I don't know; I don't use them. And I also configure UltraEdit to run emacs Verilog mode in batch to get quick generation of port lists, etc.

Nor would I suggest otherwise.

I posted not to disparage anyone else's editor, but to say that UltraEdit is nothing short of terrific. I don't use many software packages that elict grudging acceptance, much less praise, so when I find a good one, I like to spread the word.

Bob Perlman Cambrian Design Works

I fully understand and no offence take ;)

Jussi Jumppanen

For my mind I would agree.. I want a editor that edits files.. the more bells and whistles the more there is to break and the slower it runs.. How many people complain about bloatwere from MS? An editor is an editor... I will accept searching but revision control is best done outside... We have HDL designer at work and using VSS it runs like a 2 legged dog... (no offence to animal lovers) but VSS itself checks in and out the same files in a serious fraction of the time.

Sim>

In general I would agree with your observation.

But I would also say that more often than not the speed of an application has more to do with the quality of the design and the code that goes into making the application, rather than its feature set.

With a bit of configuring Zeus is more than happy to integrate with VSS and baring problems like slow networking, the check in, check out general take fractions of a second to complete.

Jussi Jumppanen Author: Zeus for Windows

I'm still looking for a Verilog editor that will match BEGIN and END blocks just as they do parenthesis and braces. :-(

FWIW the Zeus editor will do this :)

It's Verilog configuration comes with brace matching for these pairs of matching keywords:

begin attribute case function module task end endattribute endcase endfunction endmodule endtask

So for example if the cursor is on or at the end of the endattribute keyword, the Edit, Find Matching Brace menu will find the matching attribute keyword.

Note: The Zeus configuration assumes the file extension for a Verilog file is V and like all most things in Zeus this can easily be configured.

Jussi Jumppanen Author: Zeus for Windows

How well does Zeus handle indenting? I have particular ways I like things lined up.

-a

Zeus has at least four indenting modes.

1) Smart Indenting This indenting is tied to the enter key and it simply lines up the new cursor position with the line aboves. But this indenting also maintains the white space from the line above, which is important to white space sensitive languages like Python.

2) Smart Brace Indenting This indenting detects the start brace character/string, add the matching end brace character/string and then indents the cursor.

So excusing my very limited knowledge of Verilog but here is a simple example of how this works:

function Something begin|

Given that editors are like tooth paste, everyone has a favorite and hates all other brands, I've hesitated to chime into this thread, but...

I've been using Vim for a number of years to do Verilog editing and am very happy with it. It has syntax hi-lighting, auto-indent, and tags. It also runs on every platform I've ever cared about. If you load the right plug-in, it understands begin...end.

It's an excellent program and keeps getting better.

John Providenza

Try Pspad, it is one of the best, unfortunately there is no code folding