Gowin - This Just Got Real

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I've been watching the various FPGA startup companies and a couple have pro
duct available through mainstream distributors.  The one I like the most is
 Gowin because of the easy to use packages they offer, 100QFP, 88QFN, etc.  
 I'm working on a ventilator project and have specified a Gowin part for th
at for many of the same reasons that I would use it myself.  

Now a customer has asked me about respinning a board that is currently usin
g an AKM part that was being made in the factory that burned down.  The FPG
A on that board is EOL and starting to get expensive, so along with the AKM
 part, the FPGA will be replaced.  Gowin is looking pretty good.  I've been
 watching them for some time which is why they were on my list for the vent
ilator project.  

I'm wondering though, how can I determine how financially stable they are?  
 I don't see where they are traded on the markets.  So I have to figure the
y are still in VC startup mode.  They did announce a year ago having reache
d 10 million parts shipped.  That's not huge, but it seems well on the way  
to being a real FPGA company.  


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Rick C.

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Re: Gowin - This Just Got Real
On Wednesday, December 9, 2020 at 1:09:51 PM UTC-5, snipped-for-privacy@gmail.com
 wrote:
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roduct available through mainstream distributors. The one I like the most i
s Gowin because of the easy to use packages they offer, 100QFP, 88QFN, etc.
 I'm working on a ventilator project and have specified a Gowin part for th
at for many of the same reasons that I would use it myself.  
Quoted text here. Click to load it
ing an AKM part that was being made in the factory that burned down. The FP
GA on that board is EOL and starting to get expensive, so along with the AK
M part, the FPGA will be replaced. Gowin is looking pretty good. I've been  
watching them for some time which is why they were on my list for the venti
lator project.  
Quoted text here. Click to load it
? I don't see where they are traded on the markets. So I have to figure the
y are still in VC startup mode. They did announce a year ago having reached
 10 million parts shipped. That's not huge, but it seems well on the way to
 being a real FPGA company.  
Quoted text here. Click to load it

They're a private company HQ'd in China so you're not likely to find much p
ublicly available info on their financials.  Based on their Crunchbase prof
ile, news releases, and history of social media posts, it looks like they w
ere founded in 2013 with first lines of FPGAs released in 2015.  Looks like
 most of their management team has worked at Lattice in the past, which is  
interesting given how much their logos look alike.  

It certainly sounds like they're investing in new devices and tools, which  
seems to indicate a healthy trajectory.  Not sure what qualifies a company  
as a "real FPGA company", but they're still quite a ways off from the big g
uys in terms of technology and product portfolio.  






Re: Gowin - This Just Got Real
On Thursday, December 10, 2020 at 10:55:41 AM UTC-5, kkoorndyk wrote:
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om wrote:  
Quoted text here. Click to load it
 product available through mainstream distributors. The one I like the most
 is Gowin because of the easy to use packages they offer, 100QFP, 88QFN, et
c. I'm working on a ventilator project and have specified a Gowin part for  
that for many of the same reasons that I would use it myself.  
Quoted text here. Click to load it
using an AKM part that was being made in the factory that burned down. The  
FPGA on that board is EOL and starting to get expensive, so along with the  
AKM part, the FPGA will be replaced. Gowin is looking pretty good. I've bee
n watching them for some time which is why they were on my list for the ven
tilator project.  
Quoted text here. Click to load it
re? I don't see where they are traded on the markets. So I have to figure t
hey are still in VC startup mode. They did announce a year ago having reach
ed 10 million parts shipped. That's not huge, but it seems well on the way  
to being a real FPGA company.  
Quoted text here. Click to load it
 publicly available info on their financials. Based on their Crunchbase pro
file, news releases, and history of social media posts, it looks like they  
were founded in 2013 with first lines of FPGAs released in 2015. Looks like
 most of their management team has worked at Lattice in the past, which is  
interesting given how much their logos look alike.  
Quoted text here. Click to load it
h seems to indicate a healthy trajectory. Not sure what qualifies a company
 as a "real FPGA company", but they're still quite a ways off from the big  
guys in terms of technology and product portfolio.

In my real job I build a board with an EOL Lattice part.  It may sell for a
nother 10 years.  I don't want to have to redesign it again.  I actually st
ill have 2,000 FPGAs, but I was using an AKM part and their factory burned  
down.  Now a $3 part is $60 and up.  So I expect we will redesign the board
 for that and pick a new FPGA as well.  I don't want to hop out of the fryi
ng pan and into the fire.  lol  

--  

Rick C.

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Re: Gowin - This Just Got Real
On Thursday, December 10, 2020 at 10:55:41 AM UTC-5, kkoorndyk wrote:

Quoted text here. Click to load it
 publicly available info on their financials. Based on their Crunchbase pro
file, news releases, and history of social media posts, it looks like they  
were founded in 2013 with first lines of FPGAs released in 2015. Looks like
 most of their management team has worked at Lattice in the past, which is  
interesting given how much their logos look alike.  
Quoted text here. Click to load it
h seems to indicate a healthy trajectory. Not sure what qualifies a company
 as a "real FPGA company", but they're still quite a ways off from the big  
guys in terms of technology and product portfolio.

Well, things may have taken a turn for the worse.  The US government has la
beled them a Communist Chinese Military Company (CCMC).  For the moment tha
t only means people in the US are not allowed to trade their securities.  B
ut many listed as CCMCs are on "the Military End User List or the Entity Li
st" which restricts sales and shipments of goods.  I'm not certain what thi
s means, but I think it puts me back to square one looking for an FPGA to u
se on my board.  

1.0 mm 256 pin BGA is an option, but not so inexpensive.  There's also a pr
icey 196 pin 1.0 mm BGA from Xilinx with a 6 kLUT Spartan 7 that would wast
e a bit less board space.  Heck, that part has 52 pins on the outer ring al
one, so it might be practical to ignore the inner I/Os eliminating a bunch  
of vias.  Still, the power, ground, configuration and some other I/Os must  
be accessed no matter where in the package they are.  

In case you couldn't tell, I'm not a big BGA fan.  

--  

Rick C.

-+ Get 1,000 miles of free Supercharging
We've slightly trimmed the long signature. Click to see the full one.
Re: Gowin - This Just Got Real

l.com:
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ch publicly available info on their financials. Based on their Crunchbase p
rofile, news releases, and history of social media posts, it looks like the
y were founded in 2013 with first lines of FPGAs released in 2015. Looks li
ke most of their management team has worked at Lattice in the past, which i
s interesting given how much their logos look alike.  
Quoted text here. Click to load it
ich seems to indicate a healthy trajectory. Not sure what qualifies a compa
ny as a "real FPGA company", but they're still quite a ways off from the bi
g guys in terms of technology and product portfolio.
Quoted text here. Click to load it
abeled them a Communist Chinese Military Company (CCMC). For the moment tha
t only means people in the US are not allowed to trade their securities. Bu
t many listed as CCMCs are on "the Military End User List or the Entity Lis
t" which restricts sales and shipments of goods. I'm not certain what this  
means, but I think it puts me back to square one looking for an FPGA to use
 on my board.  
Quoted text here. Click to load it
ricey 196 pin 1.0 mm BGA from Xilinx with a 6 kLUT Spartan 7 that would was
te a bit less board space. Heck, that part has 52 pins on the outer ring al
one, so it might be practical to ignore the inner I/Os eliminating a bunch  
of vias. Still, the power, ground, configuration and some other I/Os must b
e accessed no matter where in the package they are.  
Quoted text here. Click to load it

why really? PCBs even for finer pitch are no longer expensive and when you  
have someone else do automated assembly  
that's not an issue either

Re: Gowin - This Just Got Real
On Saturday, January 23, 2021 at 5:24:18 PM UTC-5, Lasse Langwadt Christens
en wrote:

ail.com:  
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much publicly available info on their financials. Based on their Crunchbase
 profile, news releases, and history of social media posts, it looks like t
hey were founded in 2013 with first lines of FPGAs released in 2015. Looks  
like most of their management team has worked at Lattice in the past, which
 is interesting given how much their logos look alike.  
Quoted text here. Click to load it
which seems to indicate a healthy trajectory. Not sure what qualifies a com
pany as a "real FPGA company", but they're still quite a ways off from the  
big guys in terms of technology and product portfolio.  
Quoted text here. Click to load it
 labeled them a Communist Chinese Military Company (CCMC). For the moment t
hat only means people in the US are not allowed to trade their securities.  
But many listed as CCMCs are on "the Military End User List or the Entity L
ist" which restricts sales and shipments of goods. I'm not certain what thi
s means, but I think it puts me back to square one looking for an FPGA to u
se on my board.  
Quoted text here. Click to load it
 pricey 196 pin 1.0 mm BGA from Xilinx with a 6 kLUT Spartan 7 that would w
aste a bit less board space. Heck, that part has 52 pins on the outer ring  
alone, so it might be practical to ignore the inner I/Os eliminating a bunc
h of vias. Still, the power, ground, configuration and some other I/Os must
 be accessed no matter where in the package they are.  
Quoted text here. Click to load it
u have someone else do automated assembly  
Quoted text here. Click to load it

That's not what I've found.  In another forum someone was trying to say JLC
PCB could make BGA boards on their low price line without problem.  When I  
looked I found their specs to be unclear so I asked.  The response was that
 if my board didn't meet their (unclear) requirements, they would enlarge t
he various parameters.  Someone even posted an image of a board that had be
en "enlarged".  The vias were hex shaped.  Not sure what the layout called  
for, but I didn't find anyone showing a <1mm pitch BGA that was made on an  
inexpensive fabrication process.  

I am going to ask my CM what the impact will be on my present board cost.  
If it's not much then ok.  To use a 0.8 mm pitch BGA the design rule number
s don't go down too much.  The 12 year old design uses 6/6 mil space/trace  
it would need to drop to 4/5 mil space/trace.  The via annular ring would d
rop from 7 to 5 mil while the drill size can stay the same at 10 mil.  The  
company who made my prototypes enlarged the holes to 13 mil saying that was
 within their stated tolerance specs while leaving only a 5.5 mil annular r
ing.  

I also find it odd that in a 169 pin BGA they have so much overhead in pin  
count they can only manage to get 100 useful I/Os.  That's insane!   Then t
here is the higher cost of most BGAs.  LSCS has some Xilinx Spartan 6 parts
 at good prices, but they are not an authorized distributor.  $5 vs. Digike
y at $15 makes you wonder how they are getting them.  If push comes to shov
e I can pay the higher cost.  It's better to make a few dollars less on a b
oard than to not sell it at all.  

--  

Rick C.

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