[VERY OT] Is everybody here over 35? If not, do you know what Usenet is?

SNIP

So name and shame the ISP here....maybe someone can help

You might add one more tidbit: "Port 119"

FreeRTOS.org escreveu: [amusing rant snipped]

:-) here we attribute it to the non skilled workers they put to save some buck in the hourly wages they pay...

It [seems to] work more or less so: they pay a high profile company to do the support that creates a lot of scripts based on docs from the equipment manufacturers w/o taking care of particularities of the installation, then they hire the cheapest people they can and "train" they to read the scripts and be polite at the phone.

You're probably eating a similar recipe there....

In message , Cesar Rabak writes

This is a case of first line support not being knowledgeable in their field. Demon used to be very good in this respect then they became Thus and it wen to offshore call centres with appalling scripts.

As I was saying... :-)

The trouble is it is not the fault of support. It is the scripts. You end up in a circle and the poor buggers in the call centre have nowhere else to go. They have no other options. They probably have one supervisor per 100 people (who are probably working on more than one account) and have less of an idea than the basic operator as the are supervising and not answering calls.

Due to phone routing when you call a local number you are redirected to the foreign call centre that has no connection to your ISP. IT is just one of their accounts. This is why they can't transfer you to another part to the ISP's company. They are not in that company. So you ring customer services... and that is another out-sourced shed probably in another country.

The problem is the cost. When I started dialup was 10GBP per month. That was a lot of money 20 years ago. broad band was 25 GBP a month when it started.... now a decade later broad band is 10GBP a month. In real terms that is less than half the cost. Something has to give.

You want good tech support you will have to pay for it. Nothing is free in this life.

BTW Something I have found that works a lot of the time. Look on the web site under "legal" as usually there is a real phone number and address there. That should get you to the reception or internal switchboard of the ISP if nothing else. Then it is up to you to get past the operator.

ks

The problem is orders of magnitude worse than you describe. Technical support has reached the event horizon - a problem falls into one of the following categories:

a) On-script problem. There is a box on the flowchart for this problem. It is solved easily with a telephone call.

b) Fatal physical problem. The device or software under consideration cannot be made to work and must be replaced.

c) Insoluble problem. There is a real functional issue related to the design or configuration of the product, but there is no flowchart step that resolves the issue. Therefore, replacing the unit will not fix the problem, and the robot employee cannot talk you through a fix either.

I have long given up calling technical support except in a clear case of warranty return ("My laptop won't turn on, I need an RMA number"). My diagnostic tools are better than theirs.

Unfortunately, automotive service is falling into the same rabbit hole... "The computer said to replace the oxygen sensor, so I did. The computer said to replace the alternator, so I did. The computer said to replace the windshield, so I did".

"FreeRTOS.org" wrote in news:DnBWk.92421$ snipped-for-privacy@text.news.virginmedia.com:

I had a similar problem at home when my previous ISP went out of business and I had to switch.

After some discussion, technical support suggested that perhaps I should try using their "newsgroups" instead. It turned out that this was NNTP, they just didn't know it by that name. Sigh. Once I knew what they called it, everything else was easy.

Of course, it could be something trckier. COuld youor employer have implemented a proxy or other protection mechanism?

Good luck!

Lewin recently took his car to the shop for a flat tire, and this is what they did...

:-(

I agree. When I suddenly can't connect to the internet from three different computers, then I sure as hell don't need to reboot a PC. I also don't need to "wait twenty minutes" with a router unplugged, unless it is one of those popular routers that include a large lead-acid battery. :-(

Wiggle the mouse... Jiggle the power cord...

I had (have) a set top box that kept crashing (a "sky box" for those in the UK).

I was told to unplug it from the wall for 5 minutes, to "discharge the static". They also emphasized that for this to work it *had* to be unplugged at the wall, not at the back of the box.

Cretins.

It's mostly kids overseas reading from a binder. If it ain't in the binder their will be at wits end.

When usenet conked out on my ISP (AT&T) I was quite impressed. The guy answering the phone didn't have a clue and I insisted on being connected to a manager, telling him it'll definitely not be to complain about him but because "this stuff gets complicated". Meaning that kids can't grok it, but of course I did not say that. A woman came on line, either in the Philippines or India but with an excellent british-style English. Told her that the server in San Francisco seemed to have an issue. She said "Ok, give me a few minutes here" (lots of keyboard tapping heard) ... "Oh, I see what's going on, can probably fix it from here. Have a great day." 20 minutes later all the clogged up posts came through.

Yes - that dangling cable will "ground" (earth) that static.

If that doesn't work, their tech support upper levels are manned by Jedi Knights. They'll use the force.

Really.

They'll use the force.

I've also been told that equipment needed to be unplugged and NOT just shut off at the power strip.

:-(

There are still good mechanics out there, but you have to dig for them.

I think there are two main reasons that the high-tech world has such crappy tech support. First, because almost everything is so cheap it costs less to just replace boxes than to actually find a problem, so there isn't much value placed on diagnostics. Second, because the vast majority of folks who call tech support can't figure out why their cable modem won't work if it isn't plugged in, so they need tech support to hold their hand at a very low level. People who can't quite grasp the concept that electronic devices require power don't need very astute tech support people.

The better places have a two-tier tech support -- after you prove your competence to the first-line idjits you get to talk to someone who actually knows their stuff. But as you've found out, the population of such people is diminishing. (I like email tech support, because sooner or later I can get the email address of someone who is competent, and who knows that I don't usually come out of left field -- then I can just go to the source).

I think the fundamental thing is "does the system block port 119".

No 'Work' grade ISP should block any port - full unrestricted access and up to the company to control port flow.

Otherwise the IP is not true business grade and could be a residential provider trying to achieve business customers

No - the problem is "authentication required". It used to be accessing the system from within their own network was all that is required. Apparently not now.

.....

A few years back, someone at AT&T support claimed that

"DNS is ONLY used for web pages"

So I get exasperated at various times.

I've had two different ISP services drop their NNTP support within the last couple of months. One claimed lack of use from their subscribers, so they didn't renew the service with their provider.

The error I received when trying to connect to the server was an authentication failure. So, it could just be that your ISP has dropped NNTP support.

I've been using Astraweb for NNTP access since. They allow you to buy blocks of data, rather than requiring a mothly fee. At $25 per

Mike

Which one isn't? :)

There's a chance the on/off control of the box was software or FSM controlled (and not a real switch), so cold reset is needed to get out of lockup.

If there was a real switch at the back - yes. But it might be they just told you the "right" solution without knowing the actual problem.

We all know that rebooting helps, right? :)

Chris H escreveu:

Yep! :-)

Yes, we have to understand is not their fault.

Seems similar to our situation, except we don't have the overseas part.

The trick that works 90% of the cases here is to ask for service cancellation, then as a mystery some less busy and more amenable person enter in the circuite and most of your problems are solved...

I agree, but is there this choice there, here most of ISPs do not have an option for "premium" service that includes more tech savvy personnel. The only "premium" we could buy (for some providers) was around the clock versus business hours service...

Not in this country... we had for some time letters from Telefonica that did not have an address to respond to until consumer's rights associations complained!!

regards,

Uniden escreveu:

Oh man. . .we always attribute those preposterous periods for unplugging as translation errors from Chinese... :-D