usenet

Very sad. Another university that doesn't get it.

Quote : "New tools ? from blogs and RSS feeds to Facebook and Twitter ? have made online communication more user-friendly since the days of Usenet, ..."

ROFL!

--
Regards, Joerg

http://www.analogconsultants.com/

"gmail" domain blocked because of excessive spam.
Use another domain or send PM.

Low usage? Check.

Rising costs? Come on -- the cost of hard drives and bandwidth for Usenet has been dropping ever since it started.

I suspect i'ts more like, "disinterest on the part of the current IT guys, and low enough usage that no one will squak too loudly if we pull the plug."

No one at Duke that's smart enough to keep it running?

--
Anyone wanting to run for any political office in the US should have to
have a DD214, and a honorable discharge.

Or even make money off of it like the guys at the university in Berlin, Germany. They offer Usenet subscription for 10 Euros a year for all those whose ISP had ditched Usenet. I am posting via them right now, after AT&T tossed newsgroup access.

--
Regards, Joerg

http://www.analogconsultants.com/

"gmail" domain blocked because of excessive spam.
Use another domain or send PM.

On a sunny day (Fri, 21 May 2010 14:21:40 -0700) it happened John Larkin wrote in :

I already knew that, I did not want to post about it as it is so depressing:-) Microsof also will stop Usenet (there are many many microsof related newsgroups).

It is all about control, they want control of the internet, while Usenet is free and broadcasts uncontrolled world wide. But Usenet will likely persist.

So, control, censored forums, where any critical entry will not be allowed, no one to all communication, just the Big Company sales pitches, will make up most of internet.

Well, I think that will have the opposite effect of what they want, that is where revolutions are born.

Anyways, there are lots of free news servers, I know about 3 so WTF does some Microsof or Gov payed flipper think to achieve?

No way will they achieve anything except their own destruction.

I started using this after clara.net ditched their text news server last year.

It was called first called mozzarella.

--
Anyone wanting to run for any political office in the US should have to
have a DD214, and a honorable discharge.

Basically true. Many of the sci.* groups are dying now due to aggressive attacks by Chinese spammers, hipcryme and various unsavory trolls. Many serious players have moved to private mailing lists with partial moderation or access by invitation only to avoid the problems.

Same for astronomy, computer chess and software engineering the Usenet groups are a shadow of their former selves. Mickeysoft has announced it is cancelling microsoft.public.excel.* on 1st June this year - I don't think they actually understand how Usenet works :(

It is the huge data bandwidth that a push system like Usenet uses (especially the binary groups). Everything is moved to everywhere by NNTP whether anyone has asked for it or not. By comparison a web based served on request mechanism with local caching is massively less consuming of their bandwidth allocation. ie cheaper to run.

Most ISPs have come to the conclusion that there is no future for them in providing a Usenet service. It costs them very dear in bandwidth charges and they cannot make money from it.

Regards, Martin Brown

newsgroups).

Microsof or

A large part of the reason Usenet has fallen into disuse, apart from a few groups like SED, is spam, trolls and flame wars. Ordinary people just can't be bothered with the hassle. Many NGs have in fact been deliberately destroyed by such behaviour - it only takes one or two insane individuals.

--
Dirk

http://www.transcendence.me.uk/ - Transcendence UK
http://www.blogtalkradio.com/onetribe - Occult Talk Show

Ditto

--
Dirk

http://www.transcendence.me.uk/ - Transcendence UK
http://www.blogtalkradio.com/onetribe - Occult Talk Show

On a sunny day (Mon, 24 May 2010 12:53:45 +0100) it happened Dirk Bruere at NeoPax wrote in :

Microsof or

Well, I think much depends on your newsreader, and also on the newsserver. It is true there is a lot of trolling (less lately I think), and flame wars, well, just get used to that, I try not to participate in that, but may shoot out at times.

Many years ago, I think 1998 or so, when I started using Linux and did say goodbye to that MS product, I needed a news reader that was as convenient as at that time was Free Agent (win 3.1 times IIRC). Because phone bills were huge it had to be an offline type of reader, and it had to run on X windows. So I wrote some small thing using the xforms library in Linux. Worked fine, just was a few seconds online to get the headers(subject lines), selected what interested me, and then would write the replies, and go a few seconds online later to send the replies and get any new headers. NewsFleX was born:

I did not invent that name, it was suggested by somebody else, including the capitals. At that time many 'Unix' freaks were still insisting on a text interface, slrn or whatever, leafnode, what not. But NewsFleX did the job. It was first marketed by me as commercial product, but it did not really sell, I remember selling one copy though, people were thinking open source = free as in beer I think, and at that time xforms was also commercial so I worked out some agreement with its authors that if it actually took of, they would get a share. Anyways, xforms went open source, and I decided to release NewsFleX as open source too. no money in it, Microsof stole some ideas from NewsFleX for in one of their programs (the search idea). Later I got many suggestions from people for extra features that I never used myself, it even had URL and simple html support at one point (actually still today), but writing a web browser is a lifetime job as it is a fast moving target, and web proxies replaced some of that. But as a newsreader it is in my view the best, with extremely powerful filters. I never see the 'trolls', not only do the news servers I use filter most of those out, real nutcackes are in my filter list, so I never see them nor any reply to them. But one would have be a real big nut to get filtered, as I like to see opinions, different ones, from a variety of people, I find it fascinating, and if they detonate into anger at times so be it, often there is something to learn.

What does not help in my view is people starting to use google groups, and thinking that is the only way to read news. It is almost these days as if google is getting so big that it is taking control of the web (and world???), and they do NOT filter all those adds, then yes, then it is very difficult to read the groups, as 90% is spam. I only use google if I want to see an original question that I missed if a thread evolves into something that makes me wonder what it is about, or when I am far away and cannot reach my own PC or any of my normal servers.

So, what worries me a bit is the power of Google. I like google, but there is this streetview thing where they collect even data from your WiFi (if you were stupid enough not to encrypt it), but did they use hacking too?, look in your bedroom and take pictures of your wife with the neighbour in bed with a car with a camera on a pole, monitor your garden over the fence for what is in your barbecue the same way, and have real close connections to somebody in the US gov, well living with all that if you are the 'good guy' and not have the uranium stack in your backyard, may still be OK (but it could be used to blackmail you, after all be sure CIA on NSA has it all somewhere too if google has it), control. But worst is that now they want google TV, they REALLY want to make the web into a one way stream of crap so to be able to steer and control the masses. They want a system of 'followers' as in twitter, where you follow celebrities (most), anti creativity, they spam youtube videos with adds ... all commerce OK, trying to push Holowworld products on to it more and more... And on top of that much of the web traffic or large parts of the internet traffic goes through google own networks, what they can tap, monitor, and filter, as much as they like without ever having to be accountable to anybody. What could you find without google? It is all very fragile too..... most of that internet stuff will be dead if a major power failure lasts longer then a few hours, unlike the old telephone landlines that kept working for days, VOIP will be dead in case of a power failure.

Anyways some thoughts, some trends I observe, one could say I have some personal interest in Usenet as I wrote this newsreader, and of course would like to see it continued. The world evolves though, UTF8 (or whatever) is here, they dump it on usenet too, NewsFlex does not support it. funny line breaks. I have pity on the pour souls who have to type in a small window in a browser and completely see they text reformatted and mutilated or maybe they never see the original formatting. Google groups has a hellofalot to learn, and their search functions are a complete disaster too. Ah!

some Microsof or

well,

times.

goodbye to that MS product,

(win 3.1 times IIRC).

had to run on X windows.

selected what interested me,

the replies and get any new headers.

capitals.

or whatever, leafnode,

I remember selling one copy though,

xforms was also commercial so I worked

get a share.

source too.

search idea).

myself, it even had URL and simple html

lifetime job as it is a fast moving target,

those out,

them.

opinions, different ones,

anger at times so be it, often

thinking that is the only way to read news.

control of the web (and world???),

read the groups, as 90% is spam.

thread evolves into something

my own PC or any of my normal servers.

from your WiFi (if you were stupid enough not to encrypt it),

wife with the neighbour in bed

what is in your barbecue the same way,

all that if you are the 'good guy'

be used to blackmail you,

control.

into a one way stream of crap

(most),

trying to push Holowworld products on to it more and more...

traffic goes through google own networks,

having to be accountable to anybody.

major power failure lasts longer then a few hours,

dead in case of a power failure.

personal interest in Usenet as I wrote this newsreader,

too, NewsFlex does not support it.

and completely see they text reformatted and mutilated

complete disaster too.

The good news is that the Net is a long way from maturity. There are probably decades of growth and change to come. For starters, the Net has still got to swallow all communication, movies, radio, TV, newspapers etc. Quite a big job. Just installing the necessary bandwidth will take years.

--
Dirk

http://www.transcendence.me.uk/ - Transcendence UK
http://www.blogtalkradio.com/onetribe - Occult Talk Show

newsgroups).

Microsof or

But that's why we have killfiles ;) I had to killfile lots of trash before s.e.d became readable, seems the norm these days. Took about three days to discern the signal in the noise. Worth the effort :)

I've been accessing Usenet for near 20 years, watched the annual student influx turn into 'eternal', watched the growth of the flamers and the anonymous idiots. These days Usenet is promoted to the 'masses' as an alternative binary access method, and even ISPs seem to not know what this place is about, giving low or no priority.

No entrance fee these days. In the early '90s I paid ~30c/min for text only (like a shell) Internet access, files were downloaded via ftpmail gateways (one requested a file, and it was sent all chopped up into lots of emails with uuencoded attachments) and there was the threat of the 'Internet Death Penalty' for people too nasty to belong here ;)

Couple years after I moved to the countryside I dropped back to fidonet access to Usenet. Universal access :)

Instead of google there was archie :) One explored large business machines 'after hours' for free archives. One played nice, 'cos access was a privilege and there was occasional mention of unix gurus who could blackhole a nasty person.

Was a time the newbies got tamed, and then this place quietened down, not any more, this noise is it... Like the CB radio craze of the '70s?

CB became so noisy, people left, then the place quietened down, I had a radio in 4WD during the late '80s, it was fairly good then, compared to the peak of the '70s.

Grant.

--
http://bugs.id.au/

...

those out,

opinions, different ones,

anger at times so be it, often

As time goes by I found I'm less upset by some of the trollers ;)

thinking that is the only way to read news.

control of the web (and world???),

read the groups, as 90% is spam.

But google and a lot of people make a fortune from adverts, of course they not going to filter them.

thread evolves into something

my own PC or any of my normal servers.

I don't worry about not seeing KF'd messages, if there's worthwhile content, somebody will context quote it and I might even remove the OP from my killfile, reconsider their POV.

Sort of like MSFT decades ago, didn't realise we were helping build a monster, because of some useful things they offered, at that time.

from your WiFi (if you were stupid enough not to encrypt it),

wife with the neighbour in bed

is in your barbecue the same way,

that if you are the 'good guy'

be used to blackmail you,

control.

into a one way stream of crap

(most),

to push Holowworld products on to it more and more...

traffic goes through google own networks,

having to be accountable to anybody.

major power failure lasts longer then a few hours,

dead in case of a power failure.

personal interest in Usenet as I wrote this newsreader,

too, NewsFlex does not support it.

and completely see they text reformatted and mutilated

complete disaster too.

But google ignore any feedback on their handling of Usenet since buying the archive (Dejanews?). They've decided not to clean up the place. Google could if it wanted to, just look at the excellent email junk filtering they provide 'for free'.

Grant.

--
http://bugs.id.au/

YES THEY HAVE VERY GOOD SOFTWARE

BUT YOU CANNOT PUT IT ALL ON THEM

THERE ARE ALWAYS EXTERNAL FACTORS THAT ARE FAR FROM CONSIDERED OR COST EFFECTIVE

THERE ARE MANY COMPANIES THAT HAVE DROPPED THE NEWSGROUPS

PERHAPS USENET ALTOGETHER

FOR GOO REASON

I AM PROTEUS

It is also possible to post using just telnet and a terminal: telnet nntp.aioe.org 119

On a sunny day (Tue, 25 May 2010 12:37:56 GMT) it happened Jan Panteltje wrote in :

So the way I posted that (via nntp.aioe.og) was like this: Start a telnet session and connect to a news server on the correct port: telnet nntp.aioe.org 119 Trying 94.75.214.90... Connected to nntp.aioe.org. Escape character is '^]'.

200 nntp.aioe.org InterNetNews NNRP server INN 2.5.1 ready (posting ok)

You can type 'help for help, and read

first, but if you know all that, and want to post something, then you need to compose the correct header, I did it like this, the lines marked with arrows is what the server replied, I used cut and paste for the references:

post

340 Ok, recommended message-ID

depressing:-)

newsgroups).

some Microsof or

I am a member of a NG that has come under sporadic attack over the years by a concerted group of people. Typically members change their names etc to avoid killfiles. At one time they were posting 7000 a day into the NG. The result was that most of the members retreated to moderated groups.

--
Dirk

http://www.transcendence.me.uk/ - Transcendence UK
http://www.blogtalkradio.com/onetribe - Occult Talk Show

message=20

Usenet has=20

guys, and=20