Soldering Thermal Pads

On 2020-12-16 Rick C wrote in comp.arch.embedded:

That depends on the datasheet recommendations and/or our own judgement. But we do use vias in pads for better thermal connection to a plane if that is required. I don't know what you mean by 'tenting', but we do use soldermask over those vias (and all others) on the back of the board. Is that what you mean? Never had problems with this. Another option is via plugging, but thats extra board cost and I have no experience with it.

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Stef    (remove caps, dashes and .invalid from e-mail address to reply by mail) 

One Bell System - it works.

It really depends on the assembly process:

Hand pasting and oven reflow: vias + untented on the bottom; wicking helps excess paste to wick through and stop the IC floating on a puddle of solder on its thermal pad.

Automated assembly: ask your assembly house as to what has the best yield If they don't know, follow the manufacturer's instructions.

I understand that some IC vendors recommend a grid pattern of paste (not just a single aperture) to aid paste control and prevent over-application when doing it by hand. These can be more difficult to apply if you don't have a proper stencil.

Really it's something your CAD tool should handle with the right holes, copper and soldermask apertures for the specific package, according to the manufacturer's instructions. Some of the more basic tools and their libraries don't seem very good at it though.

Theo

large thermal loads. The main problem is a part that has large pads. The gu y is laying it out ignoring the suggestions of the data sheet and simply pu t five 16 mil drill vias to the bottom layer with a lot of copper. That's a bout like connecting with five thermal breaks, 50 mil wide and 62 mil long.

wicking. I've never heard of that. Is that a thing? I've always heard that vias simply should not be in the pad, rather ring the pad with lots of copp er. Then you can get a significant number of them, adequate to connect the bottom layer to the top thermally.

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I've always had a hard time getting PCB fab houses to not clip my silkscree n around vias and pads. The problem is they use much larger clipping regio ns than would seem to be required. The assembly house was the middle man, but kept talking about how bad tented vias are, referring to closing off th e via opening by the silkscreen or solder mask, potentially causing damage to the boards somehow. They seemed to think it could cause bubbles in the solder mask or something. I did get them to clip a lot smaller but they st ill clipped.

If you tent the back side and cover the front side with solder paste and a chip, where does the air go that is trapped in the via when the board is re

via is going to rise to 2 atm. I expect if it doesn't do anything to the b oard it would tend to push the chip up and burp. But then it depends on th e number of size of the vias. Lots of smaller vias have less volume than f ewer large ones.

The chip data sheet does not show any vias under the pads. They show large areas of copper radiating from the chip. VNH5019A

Any idea how much plating is found on vias on a board with the typical 1 oz copper? I assume that start with 1/2 oz and plate up to 1 oz, so adding 1 /2 oz. Does that equate to 1/2 oz copper in the vias or somewhat less due to diffusion limitations?

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Rick C. 

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h large thermal loads. The main problem is a part that has large pads. The guy is laying it out ignoring the suggestions of the data sheet and simply put five 16 mil drill vias to the bottom layer with a lot of copper. That's about like connecting with five thermal breaks, 50 mil wide and 62 mil lon g.

e wicking. I've never heard of that. Is that a thing? I've always heard tha t vias simply should not be in the pad, rather ring the pad with lots of co pper. Then you can get a significant number of them, adequate to connect th e bottom layer to the top thermally.

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een around vias and pads. The problem is they use much larger clipping regi ons than would seem to be required. The assembly house was the middle man, but kept talking about how bad tented vias are, referring to closing off th e via opening by the silkscreen or solder mask, potentially causing damage to the boards somehow. They seemed to think it could cause bubbles in the s older mask or something. I did get them to clip a lot smaller but they stil l clipped.

a chip, where does the air go that is trapped in the via when the board is

via is going to rise to 2 atm. I expect if it doesn't do anything to the b oard it would tend to push the chip up and burp. But then it depends on the number of size of the vias. Lots of smaller vias have less volume than few er large ones.

e areas of copper radiating from the chip. VNH5019A

oz copper? I assume that start with 1/2 oz and plate up to 1 oz, so adding

1/2 oz. Does that equate to 1/2 oz copper in the vias or somewhat less due to diffusion limitations?

I found this.

Page 6, 3.2 Rule2 : Thermal VIAS A typical 12 mil diameter thru hole via with 0.5 oz copper side walls has a

per on the same side of the board.

--

Rick C. 

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On 2020-12-16 Theo wrote in comp.arch.embedded:

For larger (under chip) pads we always use a grid pattern. If I understood correctly, the recommendation is to aim for 50-75% paste coverage on those pads. But that ofcourse also depends on your stencil thickness.

The grid pattern also helps gasses from the solder paste escape and can reduce voiding.

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Stef    (remove caps, dashes and .invalid from e-mail address to reply by mail) 

Sanity is the trademark of a weak mind. 
		-- Mark Harrold

Weird, never had that problem. Yes, they clip soldermask and silkscreen around pads, but never around vias. Silkscreen over a via is usually a bit distorted, but if you have no other space to put it, it's better than nothing. Our pcb package has an option to use soldermask over vias or not. We always put soldermask over the vias and if that is in the gerbers, that is wat we get on the boards. Never tried what happens of we don't put soldermaks over the vias but do have silkscreen over them.

The contribution of gasses from the solder paste itself is probably much larger than that of the little bit of air in the vias. A paste grid pattern can help to reduce problems with these gasses (voiding). A page about that topic:

The datasheet only shows some tested layouts and the thermal results. I see no other recommendation than a "suggested pad layout". With these pads and a little copper area on the side, you could place all the thermal vias in the areas next to the pads and/or place them inside the pads. I don't know what I would do in this case. Would also depend on the rest of the layout. But I would use as much copper as possible on the top and then decide where and how many thermal vias to use. A bit more compicated in this case as the thermal pads are not in the same net. so you cannot just connect all to a bottom ground plane.

I'm not so much in the oz thing. What I always hear is that the finished hole size of a plated hole is 0.1mm smaller than the drill. So when I design in a 0.3mm via, they use a 0.4mm drill and the expected plating thickness inside the hole is 0.05mm.

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Stef    (remove caps, dashes and .invalid from e-mail address to reply by mail) 

Mr. Cole's Axiom: 
	The sum of the intelligence on the planet is a constant; the 
	population is growing.

Yes, tenting can be problematic. There are many factors involved - the sizes of the holes, the type of solder, the type of soldering process, the quality of the pcb production, the skill of the assemblers, the type of assembly.

Vias in pads are fine if they are plated and plugged. I believe we have used that on some boards. (I know we have also used some tented vias in pads on older boards, and I know those were problematic but possible to manufacture.)

You really need a good dialogue with the assembly house here, and /they/ need a good dialogue with the pcb manufacturer.

The best choice is always a balance - can you afford the greater cost for plating and filling? Can you afford the extra board space to have the vias outside the pads? Can you afford the reliability risk of imperfectly produced boards?

Yes, that's the kind of problems you can expect. Tents can be blown, and you lose solder out the via. And if they burp (I don't know if that is a technical term, but I know what you mean) then you could get short-circuits under the chip. It's easy to end up with something that works during board testing but has long-term reliability problems, and repair of this kind of failure is going to be close to impossible as the thermal connection makes rework impractical. If you are going to try tenting, you'll want to xray at least a few of the boards to see the results.

th large thermal loads. The main problem is a part that has large pads. The guy is laying it out ignoring the suggestions of the data sheet and simply put five 16 mil drill vias to the bottom layer with a lot of copper. That' s about like connecting with five thermal breaks, 50 mil wide and 62 mil lo ng.

ze wicking. I've never heard of that. Is that a thing? I've always heard th at vias simply should not be in the pad, rather ring the pad with lots of c opper. Then you can get a significant number of them, adequate to connect t he bottom layer to the top thermally.

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creen around vias and pads. The problem is they use much larger clipping re gions than would seem to be required. The assembly house was the middle man , but kept talking about how bad tented vias are, referring to closing off the via opening by the silkscreen or solder mask, potentially causing damag e to the boards somehow. They seemed to think it could cause bubbles in the solder mask or something. I did get them to clip a lot smaller but they st ill clipped.

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he via is going to rise to 2 atm. I expect if it doesn't do anything to the board it would tend to push the chip up and burp. But then it depends on t he number of size of the vias. Lots of smaller vias have less volume than f ewer large ones.

rge areas of copper radiating from the chip. VNH5019A

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1 oz copper? I assume that start with 1/2 oz and plate up to 1 oz, so addin g 1/2 oz. Does that equate to 1/2 oz copper in the vias or somewhat less du e to diffusion limitations?

That amounts to 2 mil copper which is more than 1oz (1.4 mil, 0.035mm). Ev erything I've been told is they plate the full board when plating the vias, so that would add more than 1 oz to the rest of the board.

I've always found it odd that there is so little real info on PCB layout an d construction that you can hang your hat on. The IPC standards are a good source, but I don't have access to them. Otherwise I find many houses hav e info on their web sites that varies all over the map.

The guy doing the layout may be responding to my concerns by himself expres sing concerns. In the meeting today we finally had a reasonable discussion and the board is going to be larger to have the full size pattern of 16^2 cm top side copper with the rest of the board laid around it.

The three pads are the two motor connections and the input power connection . The board is mounted in a fairly large enclosure with some natural airfl ow. They may use a pair of small fans to keep the motor cool. This board can't be located in that air stream unfortunately.

Since we are not maxing out the capability of the chip I think we will be o k with 16 cm^2 done right. It took a 2x4 up side his head to get the board guy's attention. He also won't change the connector for the motor switch es. We said weeks ago to make it a 10 pin ribbon cable, cheap and easy. B ut he has on the board a 6 pin Molex connector with two parts and separate pins rather than buying a damn assembled ribbon cable for $1.50. Buy a le ngth twice what you need and cut it in half to make two cables. Isn't that obviously the easy and simple path? Why screw with crimp connectors?

--

Rick C. 

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Well there could be some rounding here where 0.035 ~= 0.05. And yes, through vias are plated with the complete board. Blind and burried vias are plated in intermediate steps.

Yes, each PCB house publishes there own rules and guidelines. But the differences should not be that big (inside the same board classes)

Crimp connectors are usually fine for mass production, ask your cable assembly house for the optimal choices for your particular layout and quantities.

For low quantity self assembled protos using a ribbon cable may be easiest, but ribbon cables have their drawbacks too. Without knowing the full design, layout, cable routing etc., a 'best' solution cannot be chosen.

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Stef    (remove caps, dashes and .invalid from e-mail address to reply by mail) 

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