Small footprint RTOS for embedded system

Probably not, but the requirement still scares away a few companies who don't want to have to deal with it.

For whatever reason, nobody seems to care about those. But if you propose using somethign free, some people freaks out and start combing the license terms to try to figure out how using soemthing free is going to cause the downfall of western civilization.

--
Grant Edwards                   grante             Yow! Sometime in 1993
                                  at               NANCY SINATRA will lead a
                               visi.com            BLOODLESS COUP on GUAM!!

Commercial licenses also sometimes have clauses banning you from revealing the details of the licenses, or publishing anything else about the software (such as benchmarks or reviews). They can also be unclear about details (if it is a "per product" license, what about different versions? Does support depend on the tools you use? If it is a "per seat" license, what about developers sharing a laptop? etc., etc.) On the other hand, I suppose most commercial licenses aimed at this market are going to be pretty clear in that you don't have to release any source code!

But you are right about people reacting strangely about open source licenses - people get all worked up about the GPL and it's "dangers", yet happily click on the XP EULA. And did you read about McAfee, which had a note on the tax statement to the effect that because of the evils of the GPL, they might have to give out some of their proprietary source code (basically, it appears they admit to have been breaking the license, and fear they might get caught). It's not actually much different from illegal use of any other code under any other license, it's just that the requirements of the license are a little different (it's not just about money).

Hi Steve,

all that you are asking for except for "free" can be done by embOS, a small and highly efficient OS from Segger

for more information. On an ARM7 in Thumb mode just about 2.5KB in size. lower cost than a couple of the OSs you mentioned. Many architectures supported and BSPs for download for ARM devices, Renesas, Coldfire, PIC32, AVR32.... just check it out. For existing BSP and evaluation Boards supported have a look here:

An Schwob

This is a popular misunderstanding. You only have to give out your source code, *if* you accept the terms of the GPL.

However, nobody can enforce the terms of the GPL (it's a license, not a contract). McAfee has the option of ignoring these terms, which would change their actions into straightforward copyright infringement.

In return, the copyright holder can then sue McAfee, and make them stop further distribution and/or have them pay damages. Forcing McAfee to give out their propietary code is not a legal option.

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I should note for completeness that I don't know if McAfee has ever used GPL'ed software, or included it in their distributions - that's only an assumption I and many others are making on the basis of their statements.

I don't know if they can be forced to provide the relevant parts of their source under the GPL or not - IANAL. It's interesting to read your comments, however.

Certainly the were obliged to release their code when mixing it with the GPL, according to the GPL's license - if they did not accept the license, then they had no rights to distribute software using the GPL'ed code. The wording on McAfee's tax return notice suggests that *they* believe they may be forced to release source code to software for which they have already distributed binaries - perhaps having first distributed binaries including GPL'ed code, they have already implicitly accepted the license and cannot then ignore it?

That's true, but the requirement is pretty trivial: a URL in the documentation is all they require. Sorry if I sounded grousy, but there are a lot of people with a vested interest in spreading FUD about open- source software. My experience as a small user without a big company's clout is that I'm far more likely to get a fix for a problem with open source than any proprietary solution. Easy-PC being a notable exception.

PB

I agree comletely.

And the supporting web/ftp site (unless one can merely point customers to the same place the developer downloaded it from.)

I also agree completely with that.

I have absolutely no complaints about the source-distribution requirement.

Unfortunately, my exerpence with some larger companies is that the concept of offering source to customers is new/foriegn and a fair bit of effort can be required to educate them (sometimes there are laywers involved - yay!). Once they're convinced, they've got to set up a mechanism to provide the source code. Even if it's just putting a tarball on an ftp or http server, that can take a few meetings and memos to make happen. It's sad, but at some places, it's easier to write a PO for $2K.

That said, at least some of the free RTOS (like XMK, IIRC) are also available under a commercial license for the more, um, "traditional" customers.

--
Grant Edwards                   grante             Yow! Is it NOUVELLE
                                  at               CUISINE when 3 olives are
                               visi.com            struggling with a scallop
                                                   in a plate of SAUCE MORNAY?

You remember incorrectly!

Here's XMK's license -

========================================================================== Redistribution and use in source and binary forms, with or without modification, are permitted provided that the following conditions are met: - Redistributions of source code must retain the above copyright notice, this list of conditions and the following disclaimer. - Redistributions in binary form must reproduce the above copyright notice, this list of conditions and the following disclaimer in the documentation and/or other materials provided with the distribution. - Neither the name of the Shift-Right Technologies, LLC. nor the names of its contributors may be used to endorse or promote products derived from this software without specific prior written permission. ========================================================================== So it looks like source is not required for XMK

--buddy

My bad. I just double-checked FreeRTOS, and it does have a distribution requirement. I must have been confusing XMK with a different kernel.

--
Grant Edwards                   grante             Yow! UH-OH!!  We're out
                                  at               of AUTOMOBILE PARTS and
                               visi.com            RUBBER GOODS!

Coming to this thread rather late due to a business trip.....

The middle point in these conditions is with respect to binary distribution - which could mean embedded in a product - so is the requirement is to reproduce the notice in your product documentation?

With respect to FreeRTOS.org - a link to downloads for all versions of FreeRTOS.org can be found on the FreeRTOS.org site. This is why I say for FreeRTOS.org merely providing a link is enough to satisfy the requirement to provide the source code. If users want the code, they can download it easily. There is no need for the user to keep the code on a server or offer to post the code on a CD as might have been the case in years gone by. (The price of a commercial license is 'very competitive anyway and a tiny amount compared to the cost of developing a new product, so this is an easy alternative :o)

--
Regards,
Richard.

+ http://www.FreeRTOS.org & http://www.FreeRTOS.org/shop
14 official architecture ports, 5000 downloads per month.

+ http://www.SafeRTOS.com
Certified by TÜV as meeting the requirements for safety related systems.

If you can live with it, Forth is in fact a small footprint OS. For most micro's several implementations are available, and some may actually do what you need. That is hard to tell without more information.

Groetjes Albert