IEE or IEEE

In article , Paul Carpenter writes

Me neither so far... however it is going to become more relevant in the future. As my Father said... I haver had a mobile phone... can't see the point of it. It will never catch on. (ditto several doctors about the GMC)

Yes... it is a bit like that.

Not at all. I know of tow contractors who have joined recently and had no problem with the paperwork.

It can look like that if you are predisposed to that view of them.

/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\ \/\/\/\/\ Chris Hills Staffs England /\/\/\/\/\ /\/\/ snipped-for-privacy@phaedsys.org

AFAIK it is only in some states. I will look out the references.

/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\ \/\/\/\/\ Chris Hills Staffs England /\/\/\/\/\ /\/\/ snipped-for-privacy@phaedsys.org

Agreed. The IEE application process took, oh, about three weeks from application to confirmation finish and was all online. Needed to name one MIEE as a referee, that was all. There was no "paperwork" as such. Joining (and working out whether or not you qualify for full membership) was just as easy as it was with IEEE (or the SAE for that matter).

The BCS, on the other hand, seems very keen to pigeonhole people within its byzantine "Industry Standard Model" -- "oh no, you didn't do enough time in the salt mines as a junior assistant under-programmer"... Every time I've considered joining I look at their application process and get a whiff of brown polyester suits, DP departments and PRINCE2 project managers ;) Your mileage, of course, may vary.

pete

Gave up on mobile phone as it became impossible to do any work at various stages. Don't say leave it in the car or turn it off, I have been some places that will hound you continuously for the mobile phone number as soon as there is a slightest whiff you have one. Some people seem to think they have to phone up for the slightest thing at any time!

Whenever I have asked to find the sponsor member suitable, it always falls on deaf ears, even two years ago.

No I said SOME sections which is definitely the case, but they soon get dropped.

Hi Chris,

They pretty much all have an industry exemption. I think Louisiana and Missouri have discussed removing that exemption. Don't know what came of it but I hope they have realized that this would send them into a technological tail spin. Probably one of those spins that pilots call irrecoverable.

Regards, Joerg

Chris Hills wrote: snip

That could pose some problems for graduates then as they would not have the necessary experience/responsible post qualifications. Sounds like Catch

1. So presumably there must be some mechanism by which those who are not licensed can be employed until such time as they are?

Ian

I have had a similar experience with the BCS. The BCS seems to be very "data processing" and mainframes type stuff.

Unfortunately the BCS is the "official" voice of computing as far as the establishment in concerned. This leads to two courses. Fights against it from the outside and inevitably loose or fight from within and change it. The latter course as happened with the IEE and it has transformed itself over the last year or so.

If you do anything related to hardware, electronics or embedded with your SW then the IEE is the one you need.

Remember the IEEE is very American. It recently disenfranchised members in several Arab and other states because they were "part of world terrorism" according to Bush! So if you don't mind being part of the Bush politics join the IEEE.

/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\ \/\/\/\/\ Chris Hills Staffs England /\/\/\/\/\ /\/\/ snipped-for-privacy@phaedsys.org

Competence is a function of age. I believe competence is roughly proportional to age, until senility sets in.

Senility is a function of age, by definition. However, it generally doesn't kick in until after you've lost the will to work, anyway (I hope) :-)

Having a degree from any but a few institutions in this country (England - I'm not sure whether the other UK bits are as bad) is no longer a guarantee that the holder can even spell "Maxwell's Equations". I'd be even more surprised if (s)he put the apostrophe in.

How true. The 'upgrade' of Polytechnics to 'University' status was the worst second worse thing to happpen in education in this country. I would still brief HR to select candidates only from 'red brick' universities.

Ian

I think there are several ex-polys that take CS and/or EE very seriously - Hatfield, Kingston, North Staffs, Teesside - and a lot of "old" universities where the focus is very much anti-engineering and the CS/EE courses are something of a joke. As it happens, our engineering team is almost entirely Redbrick/Oxbridge/Robbins Committee - but they were picked individually on their own merits rather than because of "where they came from".

(Actually, there was one MSc course at a particular university in the North that produced some of the most risible candidates for jobs that I've ever seen - and yet on paper it was a place with a pretty good reputation for computing and electronics... I did suggest a blanket ban on anyone from that course after we'd interviewed a few complete clowns...)

pete

"Joerg" wrote

The last time I checked, you can become a registered professional engineer in the U.S. without a degree but it requires many years of experience to qualify.

A non-degreed engineer designing a microwave system is probably a poor choice for an example. The professional registration laws in the U.S. are concerned with public safety. If the microwave doesn't work because the engineer doesn't know the basics, no harm, no foul as far as the public is concerned. There's very little that's done in the electronics world that requires a licensed engineer's signature before it can be loosed on the public.

Hi Everett,

It depends on where the microwave link is used. If it is air traffic control that can become dangerous. We just had that happen although for other reasons. The western system for high altitude conked out. That made for some close calls and lots of stranded passengers.

Regards, Joerg

Indeed there are, but I would never employ anyone who had majored in CS on an embedded project.

This is a good thing. When the Polys first converted there were still huge gaps between them and the red bricks. it is a pity that after such a long period that the gap has not narrowed more. I don't mine where good candidates come from.

There has always been a (well known) hierarchy amongst the red bricks for Electronics. These have not changed significantly in 20 years.

I did not mean to imply picking people because of where they came from, merely as a pre-qualifier, in the same way I would select upper seconds and firsts for preference.

Ian

Again, depends on the course. There are some CS courses where anything as "dirty" as implementation is looked upon with a degree of scorn, others where anything that's not point'n'drool commercial software and language-of-the-month isn't appreciated....

and on the other hand there are EE courses where "programming" is taught, but with no underlying concept of "software engineering" - "here's the assembler/C syntax, hack it together, you don't need process" (I exaggerate only slightly....)

There are good and bad courses in both disciplines.

pete

I can't help seeing the obvious sense in this. Very succinct, thanks.

Regards, Mike.

Hi Ian,

What would be the reason? Embedded, as long as it contains the full dose of hardware and failsafe structures, can be one of the hardest kinds of projects one can encounter.

Sometimes when working on an embedded system I long back to earlier EMI assignments. Even though EMI is usually nasty when they call me out and I have to bite on my tongue to avoid inappropriate exclamations to come out.

Regards, Joerg

Fortunately, the testing that is required is determined by qualified engineers. ;-)

They do not have a sufficient depth of understanding of hardware.

Ian