You mean to tell me if they bring licensing into the UK and I am too old to obtain it I CAN be discriminated against because of my age? I thought that was precisely what age discrimination was supposed to stop.
Ian
-- Ian Bell
How about India and other parts of the Far East.
Ian
-- Ian Bell
...
This is the first I've heard of it here (in Australia). Whats it called?
cheers,
Al
Ian Bell wrote in news:ck4g6t$moi$ snipped-for-privacy@slavica.ukpost.com:
While I know nothing about C.Eng, it sure sounded like he was saying there is more than one way to get it, I would hazard a guess that the other method(s) would not exclude you because of when you went to school.
-- Richard
I've never heard of it (for most fields) in the USE either. I guess there are a few areas (civil engineering?) where you need some sort of license, but not in any of the fields that I've worked in/around: electrical, mechanical, chemical, software, manufacturing, test.
--
Grant Edwards grante Yow! ... the MYSTERIANS
at are in here with my
visi.com CORDUROY SOAP DISH!!
Hi Chris,
Europe, and if it has to be low cost Eastern Europe.
Not really. Almost all of Europe is free of that. So is most of Asia.
But for EEs it's usually not enforced or there is an industry exemption. If it was different you'd see a flurry of lawsuits including class action which would drain the coffers of the respective state. Which in turn would make their politicians think really hard about the "benefits" of such laws ....
Regards, Joerg
Hi Chris,
If there is a reasonable and quick path it may be ok. The problem arises if regulations are put in place that older engineers are unable to fulfill, effectively locking them out of part of the market and affecting their livelihood.
Regards, Joerg
Hi Chris,
That is not quite so. For example, nearly all transportation gear, med equipment and so on is designed by companies without licensed engineers. A license does not determine whether an engineer is able to safely design, say, a unit with a proper failure mode handling. This is done by rigorous agency regulations. The design (not the engineers) must pass UL safety tests, EMI tests, FDA filings and so on. That's what creates additional safety. IOW, if your have a product that doesn't pass you don't really have a product.
Regards, Joerg
I'm glad you're looking for more than just the "CV benefits". I've joined three professional societies because I feel each of them offers me services and information that support me in my career and my own interests in engineering. The fact that there's "more letters after my name" is irrelevant.
As to which society (or societies) to join, it depends what you're after.
If you want a society that gives you a hell of a lot of high quality
*information*, then I'd say IEEE + IEEE Computer Society + IEEE CS Digital Library is an absolute must. I'm not sure how much postgrad experience they mandate for full membership - I joined after having been in the industry for several years. The IEEE loses out a little in Europe in that despite its international membership it's still very much a US organisation, and despite very much appreciating the amount of stuff I get from the IEEE I feel rather more of a "consumer" than a participant. It's easy to drown in IEEE journals, be selective about which societies you join! (The IEEE Computer Society is a must; I also recommend the Engineering Management Society just because its publications give you a lot of interesting background). If you just want to join one society to keep tabs on where the industry and academia are going, I would say the IEEE is the one.The IEE isn't quite the information giant that the IEEE is, but it's not bad, and it has the advantage of a clearly defined route - if you want it - to C.Eng in the UK or Eur Ing. (My own personal take on C.Eng/Eur Ing is that membership of a professional society is largely *proactive* - something you do because you feel that you gain by being a member; C.Eng or Eur Ing is something that's largely *reactive* - it's a "tick list" qualification that opens some career doors and tends not to be done until a job demands it... - at least in the embedded software game anyway!) It does have the advantage of Savoy Place in London which is a magnificent establishment with the air of a Senior Common Room or a gentlemens' club. If your primary aim is getting C.Eng or Eur Ing from the UK, then I'd say the IEEE is your obvious choice.
Within computing in Britain I think there's a slight problem of overlap between the IEE and the BCS. I was a student member of the BCS back in the late 80s, and I must say it singularly failed to impress me - when I decided to join a UK professional society the IEE still seemed a far, far better fit for people working in embedded/realtime/technical computing and for people working in small/medium enterprises - looking at the BCS it still feels very tied to its "industry standard model" that is more suitable for people working in big company DP, the public sector, commercial computing, IT management etc.
Have you also considered the ACM? - back in the 80s and early 90s it looked to be the most attractive society related to computing, but (personal opinion only) I think it's got stuck at the formal/theoretical end of computing and most of the interesting nuts'n'bolts stuff is going on in the IEEE CS these days. Certainly CACM went downhill in the 90s and I no longer try to scrounge copies of it!
Finally if your work is in any way involved with transportation (telematics, avionics, embedded systems in any form of vehicle) the SAE is worth joining. I freely admit that I'm an MSAE as much out of a personal interest in many aspects of transportation as out of any professional need though! - it's a bonus that my education and career history qualify me for membership.
pete (MIEE MIEEE MSAE, for what it's worth)
-- pete@fenelon.com "there's no room for enigmas in built-up areas"
Age is not a bar to getting C.Eng. To be too old you would have to be dead.
Not competent/ senile etc is not a function of age.
/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\ \/\/\/\/\ Chris Hills Staffs England /\/\/\/\/\ /\/\/ snipped-for-privacy@phaedsys.org
In article , Richard writes
Yes. exactly, You don't need a degree to get C.Eng.
/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\ \/\/\/\/\ Chris Hills Staffs England /\/\/\/\/\ /\/\/ snipped-for-privacy@phaedsys.org
In article , Joerg writes
the path is different.
This is not the case for C.Eng
/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\ \/\/\/\/\ Chris Hills Staffs England /\/\/\/\/\ /\/\/ snipped-for-privacy@phaedsys.org
In article , Al Borowski writes
PE I think... I will have to look at the report again.
/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\ \/\/\/\/\ Chris Hills Staffs England /\/\/\/\/\ /\/\/ snipped-for-privacy@phaedsys.org
It is in the US for some embedded, safety critical and stuff that interfaces with the public. I think it is in Texas and some other states.
/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\ \/\/\/\/\ Chris Hills Staffs England /\/\/\/\/\ /\/\/ snipped-for-privacy@phaedsys.org
Hi Chris,
Now that's a bit scary. I have heard that it might also be possible in the US to get a PE without a degree but I don't know. This can become dangerous if an engineer is believed to have gone through all the hoops and then he or she never heard about the Maxwell equations but ventured in designing a microwave installation anyways. Not a good thing.
Regards, Joerg
In my years (over 20 working in various companies last 10 as my own company) I have NEVER come across the need for C.Eng or even been asked if I am a member of any society/trade body.
I am however a member of the IEEE and take the Computer Section.
I always found any attempts to find out if the IEE had improved met with loads of forms and expecting all sorts of things that assume you are an employee in a large multi-national full of other IEE members to qualify what you say you have been doing. It seems to become more of an old boys club, whereas some IEEE sections are more about academic back slapping and publishing purely academic papers.
--
Paul Carpenter | paul@pcserviceselectronics.co.uk
PC Services
GNU H8 & mailing list info
For those web sites you hate
What exactly would that be?
I know for a fact you don't need a PE to design the hardware or software that goes into cardiac pace-makers, automatic de-fibrillators, or other medical gear. Neither is it required for things like designing ABS systems, engine controls, or other civilian transport stuff. Not required for avionics, fire-control or ordinance handling systems for for the military [even those systems capable of launching nuclear weapons]. It's not required for people who design the telecommunications infrastructure. My friends and I have worked in a _lot_ of different areas doing embedded systems HW/SW, and nobody has ever even been asked about being a PE. I've been working for
20+ years, and don't think I've ever even _met_ one.
--
Grant Edwards grante Yow! Remember, in 2039,
at MOUSSE & PASTA will
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Engineers, doctors,lawyers and accountants always have holes in our areas of technical competence (or, to put it more positively, areas of specialization). Knowing when to get someone else to check the work out, or when to give the work to someone else, is part of being a professional. A licenced engineer in Ontario can red-tag a boiler and force it to be shut down. That's in the law, and it's ANY licenced engineer- even an electronics type. Of course there could be various consequences if it was not justified. Same if a lawyer who spent all his life doing tax law decided to take on a murder case.
Best regards, Spehro Pefhany
-- "it's the network..." "The Journey is the reward" speff@interlog.com Info for manufacturers: http://www.trexon.com Embedded software/hardware/analog Info for designers: http://www.speff.com
I think we are talking at cross purposes. I understand the requirements for C.Eng. but someone mentioned this will/maybe superceded by licensing which is not the same thing.
Ian
-- Ian Bell
Talking obout somewhere else... Here in Brazil you need to have a license to work in the engineering field. All you need the get the license is an university diploma from a government accepted university. As a matter of fact, you need only to show your license to open a company and to work as a consultant or to the government. But any licensed engineer can denounce someone working as an enginner without a license, and that's a good fee to the company as well to the worker. As nobody ever donounces anyone, noone cares about it.
Ricardo.
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