Change Careers?

Other places you might try job seeking would be Oregon and Arizona. I seem to remember that Intel does R&D for network processors up in Oregon and I think Microchip Technology is based in Arizona. If you have good experience with hardware, you could possibly be an applications engineer for a company that makes microcontrollers.

A lot of the embedded job here in Silicon Valley seem to want networking knowledge (TCP/IP, Routing protocols, 802,11, SAN).

How hard have you looked ? I find it hard to believe you can't find a job with your education and experience if you're willing to move. Have you looked at defense contractors ? I just looked at the Raytheon corporate web site and searched for software AND engineer for all domestic locations and got 463 jobs listed. Granted some of those are likely duplicates and many won't fit you, but still ..... 463 jobs listed.

Why change careers ? What could be more interesting than embedded software engineering ? Don't be a putz and chase the wind looking at the 'hot field', leverage your skills.

Zeno wrote: It is pretty tough out there right now,

I've been out of work for over a year now, have over a thousand resume's delivered and still not getting any decent bites. The so called job sites have thousands of job listings it seems, but it is 100 copies of the same job from 50 different head hunters, very few postings that are from the company in question. I was a test coordinator, system admin, software developer and part time embedded engineer. However, I don't speak SAN or Telecom, so that leaves out 90% of the postings. If you have an inside on where to look that doesn't want 20 years experience for a 2 month contract then I'm all ears! Really!

DLC

: How hard have you looked ? I find it hard to believe you can't find a job : with your education and experience if you're willing to move. Have you : looked at defense contractors ? I just looked at the Raytheon corporate web : site and searched for software AND engineer for all domestic locations and : got 463 jobs listed. Granted some of those are likely duplicates and many : won't fit you, but still ..... 463 jobs listed.

: Why change careers ? What could be more interesting than embedded software : engineering ? Don't be a putz and chase the wind looking at the 'hot : field', leverage your skills.

"jobseeker" wrote

Jim,

One thing you can do is to defer picking another state to move to, if that is what you must do, and apply for out of state positions.

I suggest you post a copy of your resume online and ask for some feedback from this group. I bet that this group would also be a great place to get feedback from in regards to interviews. And it wouldn't hurt for you to learn a bit about marketing. Getting a job doesn't always have as much to do with being qualified as we would like to think.

Good Luck,

Mike Turco

do

In the past it has never taken me more than 4 months to find an embedded job, until Bush got elected. Was laid off in april of 2000 and have yet to find another full time permanent embedded job. What work I've managed to get in last two+ years is part time contract work. Moved to two states in search of work and looking to go a third soon. Its easy to shell out advise if you've sit this "soft spot" out employed.

If you got an embedded job KEEP IT !

Suggest you move to a country where the economy isn't in a tailspin. There are many more options than India & China.

The other thing (if you don't want to move) is to look at what the companies around want in software engineers and learn those skills however you can. If that means taking a class, do it. Companies (at least the HR types) will be more impressed with some certificate you can wave around than if you learn stuff by yourself.

The past several jobs I've had have mostly been based on older systems. The part-time contract job I've had the longest is for a Z80 system using Forth. :-) I went to one company where I was told I'd be working on a state-of-the-art 32-bit RISC. When I got there, that project was on hold and I got a horrible 68HC11 project. I didn't even get to mess with the HC11 peripherals as I was told not to touch those (I was porting middleware to someone else's HC11 system). I'm playing catch-up now learning C++, networking, MFC, COM, whatever it seems companies want - embedded or pure software.

Good luck to all trying to find a way to pay the rent and put food on the table.

You're not serious about moving to China or India right? Average yearly salary for white collar workers (engineers included) in China is less than $10K. I'm working at the moment as an engineer here in San Antonio, and although its not as glamorous as Silicon Valley, the cost of living is way,way less than California. There is a demand for engineers here, its just that the HR managers for various companies don't advertise locally too much because there is a paucity of available candidates.

Your qualifications sound good, I think that you could find a position in the state of Texas in whatever city that you look in. Don't chase after another degree, or the latest Microsoft certification, you'll just be diluting you efforts and wasting time, money, and energy. One thing that engineers are not trained in is the science of negotiation, and I firmly believe that finding a satisfying position requires negotiation skills. Lawyers, medical professionals, used car salespeople, they all get training in the negotiation arts and sciences, but we engineers seem to disregard negotiation as a way to get the things that we want. Most engineers assume that they'll be awarded a job simply on the strengths of their resumes, but this is rarely the case.

I recommend checking out the book "Start with NO", by Jim Camp from your local library. It describes decision-based negotiation and how we can never control the outcome of any negotiation, interview, or meeting. We can only control ourselves.

You've got the qualificiations, now you need the negotiation skills. Sorry if this isn't specific enough, but most engineers approach the entire job search process in a very inefficient manner and this tends to sabotage their efforts.

Bob F. wrote: Fine and good, but if managers don't advertise, where do you find them? I already know that it isn't what you know, it's who you know, but all the people that I know are out of work right now, not too good there. I'm having a hard time even finding the companies, let alone the managers inside them that are hiring! I've never had this much trouble finding a job before, but my contacts have all dried up and the head hunters are about as useful as a lead balloon, about as thick too. So where are these hiring managers? Your words sound good, and I'm pretty darn good at the negotiating table, but not if I can't get a foot in the door!

DLC

: You're not serious about moving to China or India right? Average yearly : salary for white collar workers (engineers included) in China is less than : $10K. I'm working at the moment as an engineer here in San Antonio, and : although its not as glamorous as Silicon Valley, the cost of living is : way,way less than California. There is a demand for engineers here, its : just that the HR managers for various companies don't advertise locally too : much because there is a paucity of available candidates.

: Your qualifications sound good, I think that you could find a position in : the state of Texas in whatever city that you look in. Don't chase after : another degree, or the latest Microsoft certification, you'll just be : diluting you efforts and wasting time, money, and energy. One thing that : engineers are not trained in is the science of negotiation, and I firmly : believe that finding a satisfying position requires negotiation skills. : Lawyers, medical professionals, used car salespeople, they all get training : in the negotiation arts and sciences, but we engineers seem to disregard : negotiation as a way to get the things that we want. Most engineers assume : that they'll be awarded a job simply on the strengths of their resumes, but : this is rarely the case.

: I recommend checking out the book "Start with NO", by Jim Camp from your : local library. It describes decision-based negotiation and how we can never : control the outcome of any negotiation, interview, or meeting. We can only : control ourselves.

: You've got the qualificiations, now you need the negotiation skills. Sorry : if this isn't specific enough, but most engineers approach the entire job : search process in a very inefficient manner and this tends to sabotage their : efforts.

:> I'm 36 years old, and I have 3+ years embedded software engineering :> experience. I have both a BSEE and a MSEE. Currently, I'm out of job :> and I've been looking for a software engineer or embedded software :> engineer position for the last 6 months. :>

:> I've decided to move out of the state of Washington, but I'm having a :> problem trying to decide where to move to other than India or China. :> To tell the truth, I am willing to move to India or China, but I'm not :> exactly sure if they'll give me something similar to a H1B visa.;) :> Also, I'm willing to accept a low salary, but it has to be enough to :> cover basic necessities (cheap apartment, basic food, basic :> transportation, and medical insurance). :>

:> Right now Texas is big on my list since the cost of living is lower :> there, but I'm not sure if it will be easy to find a job there. The :> next place on my list is California, but it looks like the living :> expenses are very high. Does anyone have first-hand knowledge about :> the job situation in California or Texas? What about other states? :>

:> I'm even looking into the possibility of changing careers. Is there :> any other field that is closely related to embedded software :> engineering which is a hot field that would not require another 4 year :> degree? Actually, I don't mind going back for another masters degree, :> but I not exactly sure if it will help me get a job in the future. :>

:> Any advice will be greatly appreciated. :>

:> Thank You, :> Jim

Okay,

You want specifics, here is what I would do:

If you want a satisfying job, you'll first need to network with people working at companies. How do you do this if you aren't currently employed? The way that I've done it before is to join various technical users groups and meet the people that attend them. For example, here in SA we have a Linux Users Group, a Cisco Users Group, ... The meetings cost nothing and are usually held in public locations like community colleges. Of course these people don't attend the meetings with a stack of job applications to hand out to you, but I think that you can see the opportunities that these sort of gatherings can offer you. These are the locations that you can learn about unadvertised job openings and also learn the point of contact to follow up on them.

Of course there will be a certain percentage of deadwood at these meetings, but you never know where opportunity lies without trying.

Yes, I know that the head hunters are pretty much useless, as are the > Fine and good, but if managers don't advertise, where do you find them?

============================================================================

Thanks - that was staring me in the face and I didn't see it. I currently get Nuts N Volts and Circuit Cellar. What other embedded rags are there that I can subscribe to to get meeting locations and times? Trade shows and such would be useful networking and experience locations as well, but I just don't know where to get the startup information.

Your help is appreciated greatly. I need to build a completely new network, my old one is over 10 years old and also out of work, and things have changed quite a bit in that time.

DLC

: Okay, : You want specifics, here is what I would do: : If you want a satisfying job, you'll first need to network with : people working at companies. How do you do this if you aren't currently : employed? The way that I've done it before is to join various technical : users groups and meet the people that attend them. For example, here in SA : we have a Linux Users Group, a Cisco Users Group, ... The meetings cost : nothing and are usually held in public locations like community colleges. : Of course these people don't attend the meetings with a stack of job : applications to hand out to you, but I think that you can see the : opportunities that these sort of gatherings can offer you. These are the : locations that you can learn about unadvertised job openings and also learn : the point of contact to follow up on them.

: Of course there will be a certain percentage of deadwood at these : meetings, but you never know where opportunity lies without trying.

: Yes, I know that the head hunters are pretty much useless, as are the : online job databases. I also know that its difficult to "network" but if I : can do it, anybody can.

:> DLC :>

:>>

: ============================================================================

well, but

Have you looked at embedded.com? You can certainly hit the show floor of the Embedded Systems Conference for little or no cost. It is (or was) the biggest gathering of embedded software folks in the USA.

It might be worth taking a look at the IEEE. I find that it skews heavily toward academia and defense contractors, at least in the Philadelphia area. However, they do offer outstanding networking opportunities and technical information, among other benefits.

You might want to browse through the list of local chapters. Many of them have online newsletters announcing get-togethers, tours of prominent local employers, etc.:

Good luck in your search.

-- Scott

Scott Barnes wrote: Thanks Scott, I'll try your tips.

regards, DLC

: Dennis Clark ( snipped-for-privacy@io.frii.com) says... :> Trade shows and such would be useful networking and experience locations as well, but :> I just don't know where to get the startup information.

: Have you looked at embedded.com? You can certainly hit the show floor : of the Embedded Systems Conference for little or no cost. It is (or : was) the biggest gathering of embedded software folks in the USA.

:> I need to build a completely new network...

: It might be worth taking a look at the IEEE. I find that it skews : heavily toward academia and defense contractors, at least in the : Philadelphia area. However, they do offer outstanding networking : opportunities and technical information, among other benefits.

: You might want to browse through the list of local chapters. Many of : them have online newsletters announcing get-togethers, tours of : prominent local employers, etc.: :

: Good luck in your search.

: -- Scott