32 bit CPU, network and on chip flash ~300KB

Hi group

I'm looking for a 32 bit CPU capable of running @ 60Mhz or more, having an external data (16 bit wide) and address bus capable of addressing 1MB or more of external ram, on chip Flash of ~300KB (that's a must) and also incorporates a network MAC. The ideal candidate would have gnu toolchain support, and would also be available as a non bga device.

Does such a beast exist?

TIA

Markus

Reply to
Markus Zingg
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Xilinx Microblaze on a Spartan3 in TQFP package?

Oh sorry you want the flash on-chip? Oh well, 7 out of 8 ain't bad...

But the rest? All happily done on a Microblaze.

Regards,

John

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Dr John Williams, Research Fellow,
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Reply to
John Williams

I think You are out of luck, As I see it, the large onchip flash alternatives are PXA800: 4 MB of internal flash - no Ethernet and you have to buy 400ku to get a sample I was told two months ago. There is a new PowerPC for the Automotive market w 2 MB of Flash. I do not know, but I doubt there is an EMAC. There might be some Japanese SH/V850 or so with Flash and ENET, but I really do not know. Atmel has the 66 MHz ARM7TDMI based AT91FR40161 with 2 MB of Flash and 256 kB of internal SRAM. You get 60 MIPS, but only when you copy your code to internal SRAM.

I think You should be a little more clear about your needs. Do you need internal flash:

  • for performance?
  • for security?
  • for board size?

No one needs a 60 MHz CPU. You need a certain performance level. You need to know how much critical code/non critical code there is. (Does the critical code fit into the SRAM)

Atmels best alternative is surely the AT91RM9200. This has an ARM920T CPU with 16kB + 16kB cache + EMAC. Available in TQFP-208. No internal flash but can load from a dataflash available in an SO-8 so if board size is the issue, then this should solve the problem. (You do not need any parallel flash in the system) If performance is an issue, you will get that by copying to SDRAM.

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Reply to
Ulf Samuelsson

Have look at

formatting link
Regards Zoran

Reply to
Zoran Tomicic

This is an MCM and not a single chip, but we do not know if this is a problem or not. Also it is BGA packaging.

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Ulf at atmel dot com
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Reply to
Ulf Samuelsson

Well, so far a new Motorola ColdFire CPU (MCF5282) seems to come close

- but it's BGA and the performance seems to be at the lower end of what I need. If there are no other options, I could accept bga.

That's a little high number of units... :-)

I haven't found any of those with ethernet. Maybe I need to lurk around some more.

Mostly for security. In other words, the ethernet could be off chip, but it seems to get more and more difficult to get (10/100) ethernet chips that can be used with microcontrollers and are reasonable priced hence the idea of useing an integrated one. I.e. the SMSC part is way too expensive.

You are right. I was not clear enough here. I need something in the ~100 MIPS +/- 20% range

The nock out criteria is security, hence I really need on chip flash.

Markus

Reply to
Markus Zingg

256

Have you tried Davicom?

I think you will have a problem executing at that performance from internal flash.

I would check the security function. I have had similar requirements, and the security function in at least some cases could be moved to a small 8 bitter.

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Best Regards
Ulf at atmel dot com
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Reply to
Ulf Samuelsson

The OKI ARM CPU meets your requirements except for the Ethernet. Check out the ML67Q5003 which is shipping now, 60 MHz with 512 kB flash, 8 kB cache and 32 kB SRAM; QFP or BGA. I believe they are also working on a new chip that will have the Ethernet MAC built in. The 5003 can be bought for under $10 in qty of 100's.

Check out

formatting link
for a low cost 10/100 Ethernet MAC. I don't remember pricing, but I seem to recall they are cheaper than the SMSC part.

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Rick "rickman" Collins

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Reply to
rickman

Right until you specified non-BGA...

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Bill
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Reply to
William Meyer

Since it seems like there is no other solution without BGA im interested to hear what alternative you would have proposed.

Markus

Reply to
Markus Zingg

Hmm, lost parts of the thread, so if I repeat this: Sorry.

Coldfire 5282 comes with 512K Flash + 64K DPRAM + 2K Cache and runs at

66MHz (and has CAN). But is BGA.

Atmel AT75C220 (ARM7TDMI), dual 10/100 MAC, DSP, but only 256K Flash (but it might be as good as 512K on the CF, since Thumb code uses less memory). Not BGA ! But only 40MHz (latest I know, but Ulf should know better :-)

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42Bastian
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Reply to
42Bastian Schick

If security is the primary issue, have you considered programming external flash with strong encryption and decrypting in-chip as it's loaded into SRAM (keeping it encrypted on the data bus too)? It certainly adds overhead while decrypting/loading code for execution, but it would greatly broaden your options. I'll bet there are even some security-oriented MCUs that'll do this natively (though, again, this narrows the options).

On the 10/100, I've had good fortune with the ASIX so far in proto, and I recall it's about USD$15 in low quantity. It uses a slightly modified NE2000 non-PCI interface. Check out

formatting link
for proto boards - it's cheaper to buy his boards than get the raw chips from the manufacturer in sample quantities. Fred will also sell Qty-1 chips for much less than ASIX.

Reply to
Richard

"42Bastian Schick"

256K flash does not appear on the 75C220 data sheet I can see.

Besides the 32 bit ones mentioned, you could look at the FLASH DSPs from Motorola or TI, or perhaps the Zilog eZ80 - meets Flash, Ethernet Comms, and non-BGA needs, has 24 bit ALU so might make the MIPS - probably needs some real test code to check that aspect ?

or perhaps the Ubicom IP3023 - tho does not look real yet ?

-jg

Reply to
Jim Granville

Ouch, my fault. It says 32x256 bit boot-rom :-)

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42Bastian
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Reply to
42Bastian Schick

This would use way too much resources not leaving enough power for the main app.

Well, the Coldfire 5282 mentioned elsewehere is - if memory serves - $17.99 in 10K quantities and does include networking. The problem with the external network controllers is that they are too expensive compared to CPU's having it integrated. In order to compete with an integrated solution such a controller would have to be $4 - $6 which they are not. If you also add the aditional cost of a more complex design (PCB space, routing MTBF etc.) the integrated aproach is much more apealing.

Markus

Reply to
Markus Zingg

It really seems like this CPU is the only candidate so far that comes closest to what I need. BGA is not really a show stopper and if no other solution is available that's probably the way to go.

The Coldfire is already at the lower end (performance wise) of what I need.

Markus

Reply to
Markus Zingg

I am not sure the external approach is really that costly. The ASIX chip is $12 in qty 1 from a distributor. So I would expect it to be around $6 in qty. Unfortunately ASIX does not vend through the normal distribution channels. But I will be getting a quote from ASIX early next year. We'll see how low they will go.

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Rick "rickman" Collins

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rickman

On Fri, 28 Nov 2003 14:29:08 -0500, rickman wrote: [.....]

It is possible to buy chips directly from Asix if there is no their distributor in your region. Here is what I got from their sales department: Item: AX88796 L Lot Quantity Price 25 ~ 50 pcs USD7.00/ea 51 ~ 100 pcs USD6.50/ea 101 ~ 500 pcs USD5.60/ea

Price Term: F.O.B. CKS Airport, Taiwan Payment Term: T/T in advance MOQ: 25 pcs

Of course you have to add to those prices shipping costs (eg. Fedex wants about $130 for a small parcel from Taiwan to Poland) and customs duty/VAT if applicable. Even then AX88796 is almost 3 times cheaper than LAN91C111 - eg. polish Memec asks for this chip $20 + 22% VAT when you buy 100+ pcs.

Regards, /J.D.

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Jan Dubiec, jdx@slackware.pl, mobile: +48 602 101787

G³êboka wiara wymaga p³ytkiego rozumu i nik³ej wiedzy.
Reply to
Jan Dubiec

Make that "The ASIX chip is $12 in *small* qty 1 from a distributor. So I would expect it to be around $6 in large qty." My point is that if you are not buying in large quantity (>1k) why would you care much about a $6 difference in price?

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Rick "rickman" Collins

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Reply to
rickman

Because I need more than 1k and the product is price sensitive. If I can get a CPU with Networking on chip (and flash) and this is going to be ~$17 I doubth that I can get a non networked chip and an external ethernet chip for about the same. It seems like cpu's having on chip networking are just 1$ more than their network less coutnerparts. A phy goes for $1 to $2 leaving a maximum price for an external controller of ~$4. However, the disatvantage of a lower MTBF and higher costs PCB & manufacturing wise AND a siginficant higher power consuption make me favour the integrated aproach. You are right though that with smaller quantities it's probably a different story - or of course if a compareable CPU can be found for say $10.

I'm currently looking at all options and since not all my queries are answered yet no final decision is made.

Markus

Reply to
Markus Zingg

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