Even Low Efficiency Energy Storage Devices Become Competitive With Spiraling Fuel Costs

zero-pollution at the tailpipe (it has none), and is

water cooling system, with emission control (incl

differential and exhaust system and a massive amount of pipes

of the current gasoline (or another fuel)

plan for)....

Stuff like this has been "planned" for decades. I'll be impressed whan quantities of them are on the road.

A plug-in hybrid does make sense for city drivers. But small, light cars make sense no matter what propels them. A small, light gasoline-powered car may make the most sense.

cheap, and the engineering advances made are

this planet) have created for ourselves.

apparent, increasingly difficult and pressing as well as more

systems.

control unit.

to produce than ICEs.

solution wins. But big changes take time.

and towards electricity), but only for the last

fuels) has not been there.

towards electricity).

right now.

at current low-volume prices.

know it).

Where's the great battery? I suspect a really good auto battery may be impossible.

John

You are assuming that there will be manufacturing and bottling plants. I wasn't. My relatives would use horses, as they did before, not oxen. I don't remember anybody using oxen. I wonder why horses were the default.

/BAH

problem ?

will obtain the same range as the gasoline version.

But have you ever driven a tractor? Answer the question.

/BAH

etc), at 20%

It is? You really do need to clean those rose-colored glasses.

No, it doesn't. It requires people who know how to work for that to happen. There are no new power plants being built that doesn't depend on the swear a.k.a. carbon fuels.

What factories? Have you ever met and _listened_ to a plant manager?

/BAH

What nukes?

/BAH

creates all kind on new business opportunities.

But that's not acceptable; these people want it all for free.

/BAH

My 1984 Honda did do better than that and it only used gasoline. The technology is not lost.

/BAH

gets even a lot better.

Coal will never be phased out in any foreseeable future.

Netherlands >for a while. It was pretty clean there :o)

Then you didn't manufacture the components. did the company buy the wire spools?

There is no such thing as clean energy. There is also no such thing as free energy.

Every hare-brained idea in this newsgroup is based on the goal of producing energy for all demands forever at no cost and no side-effects.

/BAH

My dad talked about using horses and mules. Horses had to be rested at the end of the field. I guess mules could plug along all day. I'm not sure why horses were the preferred choice.

Dean

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You are wrong. My sister has halved the feed for her animals because of the small increase of bio-fuels' grain demand. Do you want to eat or start your car every morning?

/BAH

Have you noticed that the only politician who has uttered the swear words "build more nuclear powered plants" is President Bush? No Democrat will even say those words with an not before it.

/BAH

Yup. The same was true in my area. The horses were bigger than mules. I don't remember seeing any oxen on the farms where I grew up.

Well, this thread has been worth something; it's caused me to reexamine one of my hidden assumptions :-).

I don't know anything about caring for oxen; is it similar to cows?

/BAH

You can eat oxen.

i suspect speed. Remember also that oxen tended to come in one overall, but horses came in a number of sizes for the different purposes.

Could have also been the preference for the area, e.g almosat all logging teams were oxen in my areas. rarely a horse team.

1) they generally don't take kindly to being milked. 2) They are a working beast, whereas cows generally have it easy.

d

t:

.

Dear Jim: Sadly, a high percentage of the new products being designed are by those who have never done a lick of work. Also, having to "risk" one's own savings to prove a design tends to bring out a designer=92s smarts. Someone said: "Good ideas are a dime a dozen." But workable, straight-forward ideas are rare indeed. =97 NoEinstein =97

creates all kind on new business opportunities.

There is little cause and effect here. The price is down because it was a bubble. The price is still inflated and will see more downward movement __**I THINK**__. But I admit it is a guess based on the Congress not caving in and actually pursuing the regulation of the oil futures market.

Energy is free. Putting it in a bottle is the hard part.

--
"I know no safe depository of the ultimate powers
of society but the people themselves; and
if we think them not enlightened enough to
exercise their control with a wholesome
discretion, the remedy is not to take it from
them, but to inform their discretion by
education." - Thomas Jefferson
http://GreaterVoice.org/extend

braking), zero-pollution at the tailpipe (it has none), and is

water cooling system, with emission control (incl

differential and exhaust system and a massive amount of pipes

of the current gasoline (or another fuel)

plan for)....

The external costs of the fuel do not appear in the price. And if these costs were part of the price then biofuels would be the best current alternative. This is true here in the USA because we actually have the land necessary to produce that fuel and it is land that is not currently serving any good purpose or land that is serving a purpose that is not as environmentally and economically valid as it would be if devoted to fuel production. An example of this latter case is the production of paper that ends up in the land fills as trash. We could do with a bit less paper and use the pulp trees to make fuel. That is probably a good trade.

and cheap, and the engineering advances made are

this planet) have created for ourselves.

apparent, increasingly difficult and pressing as well as more

eco systems.

control unit.

to produce than ICEs.

efficient solution wins. But big changes take time.

and towards electricity), but only for the last

fuels) has not been there.

towards electricity).

And biofuels are a big part of that which fills the gap.

right now.

Even at current low-volume prices.

know it).

Biodiesel is one super duper battery. The shelf life is really good and the weight is not all that bad for the energy content. The photosynthesis is a the way you charge the battery. We need better algae that can get

20% efficiency as opposed to 8%. There was some promising research on this and some folks observing less than 8 photons to cause proper reactions and then .... nothing. There were some dudes shifting light wavelengths from blue to yellow red and that seems to have gone also. Nothing is happening that I can find.

How do I search (like google) the patent data to find stuff like this?

--
"I know no safe depository of the ultimate powers
of society but the people themselves; and
if we think them not enlightened enough to
exercise their control with a wholesome
discretion, the remedy is not to take it from
them, but to inform their discretion by
education." - Thomas Jefferson
http://GreaterVoice.org/extend

We already have lots of gas and the support structure to produce and deliver it, it just doesn't run in a diesel engine and the MPG is lower than gasoline.

Modifying a gasoline engine to run on gas is trivial and dual fuel cars are common in parts of the world.

Synthetic fuel becomes real when either the stuff in the ground runs out or the cost to produce becomes on a par with the stuff in the ground, whichever happens first.

Horses are smarter than oxen, you can train them and they are more versatile.

--
Jim Pennino

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etc), at 20%

Factories aren't usually concerned with factors like the crop is ripe NOW and needs to be harvested, or there is a storm on the way and the crop needs to be harvested NOW or it will be ruined.

--
Jim Pennino

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