Even Low Efficiency Energy Storage Devices Become Competitive With Spiraling Fuel Costs

(hence

a cable between two solidly fixed

That was used at one time with stationary steam engines.

Turns out that modern tractors are a lot more viable.

two solid rails in one direction, and a

I would think such an arrangement could

time of day or night, and in any

Nothing like as viable as using biodiesel in existing machinery.

was implemented with rather old

Yes, but not that XY approach.

Biodiesel in existing machinery is a lot more practical.

ike

blem ?

.

or so.

cieny or so (if you are lucky).

But, that doesn't really matter in the least bit. Since the people who understand the efficiency of both of them, are also the people who invented digital, lasers, fiber optics, holograms, WWW, DVD, GPS, bio-diesel, robots, microcomptuers, USB, and cruise missiles.

so (simple replace the heavy ICE by battery mass).

ith a gasoline driven car, and probably at par in many

to replace and recycle the Zi-oxide.

I do not ridicule anyone for any reason. Once you start ridiculing people, they will ridicule you back, and you end up shutting down all communication.

Jonathan had something in mind when he made his comment, and I want to hear what it is. I simply did not understand his concern, but that does not mean that he has something to add to the discussion. I want to hear what he has to say, so I asked. Call it politeness, but I believe that most people have good ideas and good intentions, although they might have a difference of opinion, or a difference in line of thought.

IMHO it is more benificial to listen than to speak. I try to speak only when it comes to correcting or bring up facts, and build my opinion using facts, and try to express them without insulting anyone. The people that I ever insulted I never want to talk to again and they are on my kill-file list (only two names there).

Tractor pulls don't really prove anything useful. But here are some:

Tractor pulls are the equivalent of drag races. This is far more useful for farmers:

Dean

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I give everyone a chance but once it becomes clear their minds have been shut down then there isn't much you can do.

Even if you _want_ to humor them it ain't gonna happen.

Try alt.origins for awhile and it'll converge even faster.

Bret Cahill

No one ever promised that post peak would be a rose garden.

Maybe algae diesel will work out. That's plan A.

If it doesn't then we need a plan B.

Plan C is oxen.

Bret Cahill

eful. =EF=BF=BD

I personally wouldn't find them very enlightening but I'm not everyone.

A lot of solutions require collective action, traffic regulations, etc. Public policy is inextricably intertwined with farming.

We need some kind of understanding on the part of the general public that cannot be expected to have the time let alone the ability to do energy calculations.

Bret Cahill

No question it is a challenging problem.

Bret Cahill

will obtain the same range as the gasoline version.

Yesterday I posted:

"Some posters here have no education in thermodynamics which is why we must constantly explain that an electric motor is 3X - 4X more efficient than a diesel."

Bret Cahill

Nope, excuting silly little children like you is.

You wouldnt know what a real ox was if it bit you on your lard arse, child.

only pretty recent : oil was $35/barrel only 4 years ago, and

available where ANY (plug-in) battery technology can be easily

a new 'tank' of Zinc (no Zinc-stations). That's a LOT of

decision (to go for Zi-air) too. Currrent thinking is more in

(PH)EVs.

I found these too. Zn-air seems to be a serious candidate for electric vehicles. What I found that it is often compared to 'hydrogen' fuel cell vehicles, and then it performs better in many ways. But hee, pretty much anything is better than hydrogen as a 'fuel'.

I googled this at another computer, and found only some bloggers that mention cycle efficincies between 30% and 50%. Nothing solid (in terms of numbers) since the efficiency relies very much on HOW the ZnO is recycled back to Zn pellets. But it seems clear that cycle efficiency is not as good as secondary (rechargable) batteries, which often get 90% or better cycle efficiency.

Well, it's not really a battery in the strict sense of the word. It's actually a fuel cell : put Zn pellets in and get ZnO and electricity out. The fuel cell has much longer lifespan than months AFAIK.

Interestingly, there is also an Al-air battery (or let's say fuel cell). Up to 1300 Wh/kg (2000 Wh/kg). Now we are talking real gasoline-equivalence, with batteries of less than 100 kg for a full range similar to gasoline. Powered by electricity (at less than $1/gallon equivalent).

There are just an amazing amount of new battery possibilities when vehicles finally move away from the inefficient, polluting, and heavy ICEs, and towards an era of clean electric drive.

Rob

Nope. Horses.

/BAH

so.

or so (if you are lucky).

It also puts food production into a single point failure condition. No functional power grid, no food nor meat.

It would be extremely stupid to transform to electric power.

/BAH

I keep hearing that phrase, "clean electric drive". Electricity is not clean.

Go work in a wire manufacturing factory for a while.

/BAH

There are/have been demonstration vehicles using flywheels, fuel cells, compressed gas, storage batteries, turbines, steam, all sorts of stuff. Most were done at incredible expense and most fade away to junkyards eventually.

What we need are good batteries, but that may be just plain impossible. Plug-in hybrids make sense, especially small, slippery ones.

The design of the 4-cycle gasoline piston engine hasn't fundamentally changed in 100 years: crank, camshaft, pistons, rings, poppet valves, spark plugs. That's impressive.

John

?

will obtain the same range as the gasoline version.

Show us something substantial, like some numbers or something. All we hear from you is fuzzy stuff and juvenile insults.

Have you ever driven a tractor?

John

problem ?

will obtain the same range as the gasoline version.

It'll be a waste of time for anyone to try to explain thermo to you until you pass some thermo courses.

A few can do it without a formal education but you ain't one of them.

Bret Cahill

Why do we need algae diesel as a plan A, when there are centuries worth of synthetic crude to processed from coal?

We know oil from coal will work, and that will allow us to stay wealthy enough to fund the research to get fuelcells and/or advanced batteries up and running.

Nah, lpg or synthentic fuel (whatever the feed stock).

--
Jim Pennino

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