what the hell is ROHS

Keith might be equally astonished to discover that in Europe we have a couple of national police forces that aren't routinely armed either ! Nor do they want to be.

Absolutely so. Europe never had a 'gun law' attitude.

Graham

Tell that to people who have shot and killed home invaders and car jackers. While you're at it, tell it to the unarmed clerk's family in Orlando who was murdered after the bandit had the money and had left the building. He turned back and shot one of the employees for no reason.

Not on the net, off hand (busy right now). The 750K figure comes from the FBI and the 2M figure from John Lott (try here:

Inner city black-on-black crime (failed liberal weenie social engineering from the '60s), druggie on druggie, and gang violence, primarily.

You think.

All sheep will be, sooner or later.

Those people are stupid, obviously. Time to clean the gene pool.

Of course you can find indidual examples where it's been to the intended victim's benefit. Obviously *no-one* would buy guns otherwise.

It's pretty simple to see that if an armed criminal sees you pull a gun on him/her that you're going to be the one at a disadvantage though !

For heavens sake - this is utterly obvious.

Graham

It seems to me that people have forgotten the original meanings of "security", "free", and "state". Gun ownership by the citizenry is required to secure the state of individual Liberty.

Or, well, [pun unintended, but I'm leaving it in] it _used_ to be like that. )-;

Thanks, Rich

Well-educated and armed simultaneously would be ideal. ;-)

Cheers! Rich

The part about who regulates them, and what exactly "militia" means.

Well, this raises the eternal question - permitted by whom?

Who owns your life? You, or the city council, or the president, or the priest or rabbi or imam or guru or whatever?

Thanks, Rich

Maybe self-regulating but by any definition a militia isn't an individual.

Some of the above depends on whether you subscribe to a religion.

Graham

If its so obvious, tell us why should US citizens give up their guns?

Here in the states there are army recruitment posters that show a picture of one guy engaged in some macho gun-touting or cliff-hanging endeavor with the tag line, "An army of one."

:-)

That would be a 'militium' in that case ! By definition, militia refers to a plurality of ppl.

Graham

Where did I suggest they should ? You'd need to change the entire culture and it wouldn't happen overnight. Maybe simply start by making carrying guns illegal ( including in cars ).

Your problem seems to not understanding how it works very differently in other countries.

Graham

I'm gonna be devil's advocate from both sides here - I'm like that - I piss off liberals and conservatives alike! ;-)

But anyway, about a robbery - if I were a store clerk, well, let's face it. If it's a store, or bar, or whatever, let them have the money and maybe they'll go and not shoot you. There's no amount of money that's worth a human life.

But I wouldn't take my eyes off him on his way out the door - for one thing, I'd be memorizing his description.

As a matter of fact, one time when I was fairly young (mid-20's to early

I almost SMP. I was wondering, "Do I grab the stick? Do I let him have the money? Do I scream, or fall on the floor? Or both?" and like that, when, seeing the look of panic on my face, everyone in the joint laughed simultaneously, because it turned out that the guy was the former bartender whose job I'd been hired to fill when he quit. Ha, ha, very funny.

But I've gone over that in my mind - I _did_ have a stick - the heavy end of a pool cue. In what's the best of my fantasies so far, I ask the guy, "Are you armed?" And if he says yes and shows me a gun, I open the register and back away with my hands high in the air. If not, I grab the stick and whack him until he goes away. ;-) I don't think I'd try to fend off a gunman with a stick, but I do wonder if, if he did have a gun, and I had one behind the bar that I could just snatch up and fire, would I fire on him?

In an ordinary robbery of a couple hundred bucks, I think not. I'd just dish out the money - the joint is insured, after all. And I'll get a good description of the guy so they can capture him.[3.14]

But boy, have I been rambling. Must be good herbal tea. ;-)

Cheers! Rich [3.14 - OK, I know I'm talking about police here, but let's face it - they _are_ there, why not use them? You're already paying for them!

it

No, you don't understand that we don't give a damn if you want to run around as targets in an open season, and be fired on by criminals who know you can't defend yourself. I will give you credit for being able to live without a backbone, though.

Which simply means that the individual soldier is trained to survive on his own, if it becomes necessary. I went through a lot of survival training, including how to live in -20F or below areas.

and it

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The point is that we're not open targets because there's no-one pointing guns.

Not going to happen.

You're pathetic. Have you ever considered opening your mind to new or different ideas ?

Why so incapable of seeing that there's a better way ? Because you're American I guess.

Graham

That's not what I asked.

I asked, Who owns you, Eeyore/Graham? I'm not talking generalizations here - that's what's got us into this pickle in the first place! ;-)

Who is the owner of your own personal life?

I'm the owner of mine, and I take my knocks like a Human - how about you? Whom do you blame for your plight?

In fact, I have that in common with the likes of John and John and Michael and Jim and some others who are much less viciferous about it than I am, but there you have it.

I own my life. Who owns yours?

Thanks, Rich

I got kind of a sick kick out of their motto a few years ago: "Be all you can be". Like, that's all you can be? A footsoldier?

Thanks, Rich

Over lo these many decaces, I've found an easy path to survival: "Be very, very nice to everyone you meet.[1]"

Cheers! Rich [1] preferably spoken in a caricature Middle Eastern Accent, a la The Guru.