Update on 787 Battery Problems

Name one comparable business.

--

Politicians should only get paid if the budget is balanced, and there is 
enough left over to pay them. 

   Sometimes Friday is just the fifth Monday of the week. :(
Reply to
Michael A. Terrell
Loading thread data ...

The fact that he represented himself more or less guarantees that his case wasn't presented well. And being the guy who, rightly or wrongly, got blamed for burning down the building isn't going to help the atmosphere any either. But I don't think that working 50-hour weeks is likely to have that marked an effect. I've done that some years, as probably a lot of SED regulars have. And of course there's another explanation: the guy was a technician, and so probably non-exempt. That means he was making time and a half for all those extra hours, an income increase of roughly 40% vs. a 2000-hour year.

The idea that they shipped a safety-critical system on which no realistic testing was done is pretty damning, and the stated rationale for the guy's objection is pretty well nonsense.

But it's hard to figure out what went on, due to the CYA behaviour of both sides.

Cheers

Phil Hobbs

--
Dr Philip C D Hobbs 
Principal Consultant 
ElectroOptical Innovations LLC 
Optics, Electro-optics, Photonics, Analog Electronics 

160 North State Road #203 
Briarcliff Manor NY 10510 USA 
+1 845 480 2058 

hobbs at electrooptical dot net 
http://electrooptical.net
Reply to
Phil Hobbs

GM?

Reply to
tm

It's actually fairly easy to tell with online videos. Start by watching this TED video: "Pamela Meyer: How to spot a liar"

Then watch the various Boeing press conferences, video press releases and webcasts. Never mind the one's delivered by a professional PR person or spokesperson. The ones to watch are those delivered by the Boeing managers who really know what's going on behind the curtain, and are probably hiding something. Extra credit if you have voice stress analysis software running.

An example is the recent Tokyo press conference (90 min)[1] where several managers did a rather poor job of trying to convince the press that there was no fire, and that it was just "venting batteries producing smoke". Duz this look like venting smoke?

I could mark the times where I think they're lying or covering up something, but I don't want to get into a debate over such subtleties. I don't have the time. Watch the video carefully and decide for yourself if the speaker believes his own rhetoric.

More:

[1] I never made it through to the end of the webcast. If you watch the audience mix, neither did some of those present.
--
Jeff Liebermann     jeffl@cruzio.com 
150 Felker St #D    http://www.LearnByDestroying.com 
Santa Cruz CA 95060 http://802.11junk.com 
Skype: JeffLiebermann     AE6KS    831-336-2558
Reply to
Jeff Liebermann

I found it particularly interesting that Securaplane and the Labor Department blew off Leon, but to a huge extent, history has vindicated his claim that the charging systems were unsafe on aircraft.

I see Leon's complaint to the FAA as similar to Markopolos complaint to the SEC about Madoff in 2005.

In both cases the regulators blew off the complaints with monumentally tragic historical results.

Considering the numerous near tragedies I think the Labor Department and Securaplane owe Leon a giant public apology and probably more.

As for being a pain in the ass, I applaud Leon.

People SHOULD be a pain in the ass when they object to producing a product that can directly cause harm to a large number of people.

He was a prick about how the schematics didn't match. He was absolutely right to be.

He saw his work turn into a huge fireball on the ground. I bet he had nightmares about the next fireballs being in the air and killing hundreds.

I'd be amazed if he hasn't been suffering from daily PTSD like nightmares since 2007, seeing hundreds of people die in a fireball.

Reply to
Greegor

tm schrieb:

Hello,

the small APU turbine needs about 7 to 9 kW power for starting.

Bye

Reply to
Uwe Hercksen

John Larkin schrieb:

Hello,

they also lost three astronauts in Apollo 1 by looking away from the problems of a pure oxygen atmosphere on ground.

Bye

Reply to
Uwe Hercksen

I doubt that is true. 9 kW would be 375 amps at 24 volts. The connectors and wiring on the battery in the pictures do not seem big enough for that amount of current.

tm

Reply to
tm

formatting link

They'll try to milk this for a cool trillion $ before they're finished...

Build a bomb shelter.

Reply to
bloggs.fredbloggs.fred

Oh sure....Securaplane was outright victimized by him. He may even be respo nsible for sabotaging the BCU, possibly on Airbus payroll, sexually deviant , may need to be investigated for advocating the violent overthrow of the U .S. government as well materially contributing to international terrorism, defrauding the company of overtime not actually worked, stealing company pr operty, falisfying test data, falsifying government compliance records,...n o end to all the stuff he did. He was positively manic in his non-stop feve red malfeasance of every conceivable kind and degree.

Reply to
bloggs.fredbloggs.fred

Then there was the matter of the arson he committed, burning down the entire facility in a rage of self-serving narcissism.

Reply to
bloggs.fredbloggs.fred

responsible for sabotaging the BCU, possibly on Airbus payroll, sexually deviant, may need to be investigated for advocating the violent overthrow of the U.S. government as well materially contributing to international terrorism, defrauding the company of overtime not actually worked, stealing company property, falisfying test data, falsifying government compliance records,...no end to all the stuff he did. He was positively manic in his non-stop fevered malfeasance of every conceivable kind and degree.

Re-read what the judge said about the way he behaved in the hearing.

Cheers

Phil Hobbs

--
Dr Philip C D Hobbs 
Principal Consultant 
ElectroOptical Innovations LLC 
Optics, Electro-optics, Photonics, Analog Electronics 

160 North State Road #203 
Briarcliff Manor NY 10510 

hobbs at electrooptical dot net 
http://electrooptical.net
Reply to
Phil Hobbs

Ummm, was that a gas turbine APU? Yep... you'll certainly attact plenty of attention with one of those.

--
Jeff Liebermann     jeffl@cruzio.com 
150 Felker St #D    http://www.LearnByDestroying.com 
Santa Cruz CA 95060 http://802.11junk.com 
Skype: JeffLiebermann     AE6KS    831-336-2558
Reply to
Jeff Liebermann

Yeah, the idiot self-confirmed all the allegations leveled against him by Securaplane.

Reply to
bloggs.fredbloggs.fred

It is amazingly small. I used to know what the HP output for the turbine was. I wonder what the rating of the AC generator is?

Looks like three phase.

tm

Reply to
tm

(...) Perhaps a photo might answer a few questions:

-- Jeff Liebermann snipped-for-privacy@cruzio.com

150 Felker St #D
formatting link
Santa Cruz CA 95060
formatting link
Skype: JeffLiebermann AE6KS 831-336-2558
Reply to
Jeff Liebermann

Uh-huh, kind of out there in left field ...and not in a good way.

Reply to
bloggs.fredbloggs.fred

He certainly looks like a nutbar.

Best regards, Spehro Pefhany

--
"it's the network..."                          "The Journey is the reward" 
speff@interlog.com             Info for manufacturers: http://www.trexon.com 
Embedded software/hardware/analog  Info for designers:  http://www.speff.com
Reply to
Spehro Pefhany

The irony! The photo name starts with 3db. Sounds like he's half a load short. ;-)

--

Politicians should only get paid if the budget is balanced, and there is 
enough left over to pay them. 

   Sometimes Friday is just the fifth Monday of the week. :(
Reply to
Michael A. Terrell

Even after Leon was out of the picture, how could Securaplane have that kind of huge fireball of plant destruction and not insist on rigorous torture testing with several of the real Li-Ion batteries?

They had FIVE YEARS after they got rid of Leon, to investigate and redesign, yet history shows that Securaplane failed.

The legal phrase "knew or should have known" comes to mind.

Somebody posted a link to a failure analysis report on Li-Ion batteries in here a month or so back.

It detailed several of the reasons that Li-Ion batteries fail spontaneously and spectacularly, whether brand new or after some amount of physical shock.

It's worse for bigger batteries, either bigger cells or larger number of cells.

Huge Li-Ion batteries are a disaster waiting to happen, a confluence of statistical probabilities compounded.

Anybody reading that report would have to be amazed that somebody would design Huge Li-Ion batteries into any aviation application.

Judging from that same failure analysis report it appears that even a charging system that does cell-by-cell monitoring can't help when any one cell reaches the point of thermal runaway.

Batteries connected to absolutely nothing have a history of single cells having thermal runaway melt downs and igniting the rest of the pack.

If you tried to design a bomb proof battery compartment to contain these things, it would be heavier than if they had used more conventional batteries in the first place.

Maybe the battery compartment should be an "outrigger" or nacelle out on a spar so that when it burns it can look like they're roasting a really big weenie on a stick?

Ironically, the very first "Lithium" battery I ever heard of was used in a self contained emergency locator used in a Beechcraft Bonanza ( V tail ) about 1976. ( walkie talkie form factor kept in pocket behind seat ).

Would that have been Li-Ion or some other "Lithium" battery chemistry back then?

Reply to
Greegor

ElectronDepot website is not affiliated with any of the manufacturers or service providers discussed here. All logos and trade names are the property of their respective owners.