The reality of driving an EV cross-country

Jeez, you think I go to the DEALER for regular service? I've been to the dealer like once in my plug-in's lifetime for warranty service on the shifter, it had a fault that affects several other GM vehicles. Probably

80% of the car is built from the regular GM parts bin. I don't need any kind of special tech to do the brakes or rotate the tires or stuff like that.

Actually I've never had the brakes done since I bought it, with regenerative braking they wear very slowly. At the last service they tell me it'll probably need them at 80k so probably good until winter.

No you can't buy a 3rd party battery or motor for it at this time, and it's probably difficult to modify in general.

Can you buy a 3rd party motor or transmission for a late-model Corvette? Is it easy to mod? Probably yes to the first question and no to the second, how many people in the US are there well-qualified to performance mod a C8 Corvette and produce anything nicer than they started with (beyond futzing with the ECU in software.) The modding market for late-model cars is so small as to be economically irrelevant.

Ever? Ever is a long time, and used cars depreciate. Used cars in general are holding their value pretty well right now, but you can get a low-miles circa 2016 Nissan Leaf on Carmax for well under 20k. If you're ok with going older and higher miles than that you can do better than that.

Some early Chevy Volts are selling for under 10, they will be high miles and probably well out of warranty coverage, but that's true for just about any used car affordable by the very low income, it's a crapshoot. I've been very low income when I was younger and know what it's like to gamble with what cheap used car to buy, hoping it will stay reliable enough to get to work in without breaking down soon, it ain't fun.

Eh? The ICE buyer (assuming cost no object) can choose their stock fuel tank capacity up to about a factor of 2.5, a mid size car these days tends to have a fuel tank of about 15-18 gallons, a compact car maybe

10-12, and it's difficult to find anything stock with a tank capacity over 30. Maybe on a few of the biggest trucks and SUVs/fuel thirsty high-end luxury cars like a Rolls Royce with an aux tank or something, don't know offhand.

Don't know why meanwhile some hypothetical EV model should have to have a select able battery capacity that varies over a factor of 20

One of the local rags publishes a "Best of" edition: "Best taco shop", "Best barber", "Best ...". They make a big deal of it, encouraging the readers to VOTE for *their* favorites in each of these categories.

Best hamburger. Best CHEESEburger. Best french fries. Best ribs. Best steak. Best business on north side of street. Best business on SOUTH side of street. Best business with an awning out front. Best business with fewer than 5 parking spaces.

[I.e., lets make sure EVERYONE can be a "best"!]

Of course, they post the results.

And, use that to drum up advertising dollars going forward: "Voted 'Best' for three years running!"

Not content with wasting a couple of issues on this (nominations and results), they decided they could do it *twice* a year! (in case the best taco shop happened to change in the interim).

Even Nixon was smart enough to initiate wage & price controls when he figured inflation was getting bad enough to hurt his re-election chances. "Communist" Biden doesn't seem interested, though.

"In late July, 1971, Nixon reiterated his adamant opposition to wage and price controls calling them a scheme to socialize America. Yet, less than a month later, in a stunning reversal, he imposed the first and only peacetime wage and price controls in U.S. history."

I guess it's true what they say, only Nixon could go to China.

"Veneer over the dealer's parts department"

What do you do for the other 20% of parts?

I suspect I can buy every part for my ICE from the dealership/manufacturer or several others who make compatible parts. I've replaced starters, radiators, water pumps, etc. and never was tied to the dealer's prices (or labor).

This is important for folks who want to maintain an older vehicle to avoid the payments and taxes on a "newer" vehicle. We tend to keep cars for ~15 years, replacing them at ~80K because we feel we're "entitled" to something new. Friends always want to purchase them (for their kids, etc.) because they know I've meticulously maintained them, no accidents, etc.

SWMBO's current vehicle challenges that as so many of the systems are now electronically controlled (steering, brakes, etc.)

Will your next pushed software update make assumptions about the power plant that your replacement may have invalidated?

You're thinking from an elitist's point of view. Not everyone modifies a vehicle for increased performance. And, not all start with vettes. Does every EV owner buy a high-end Tesla? By your analysis, we should ignore those that don't (economically irrelevant).

What's the value of a battery that still has serviceable life? (i.e., the value of an ENGINE that still runs). THAT will set the low end of the (used) EV selling price.

There are people who are *stuck* in "very low income". Forcing them to buy a vehicle that they can't afford just further traps them, there.

There's no cost to a bigger tank -- your vehicle has it or it doesn't. If it's a smaller car, it likely gets higher gas mileage so overall

*range* is likely close to constant.

Once you've made your battery purchase, that's your upper range limit. If you drive around town, primarily, are you going to invest in "extra capacity" just in case you want to drive a long distance?

I read them plenty. Car & Driver does _not_ review everything as the greatest thing. They rarely give anything a 1/10 or a very low score, because new car quality overall is quite good these days, it's rare anything objectively deserves a very low score.

But I don't think they live in fear of the manufacturers, they have too much clout.

The late-model Jeep Compass just as one example got fairly ripped:

"Lethargic gas powertrain, can't tow as much as the Cherokee, poor value proposition."

Doesn't sound like the "greatest thing" to me.

And they don't give every luxury car with a high price tag glowing reviews either.

Anyway, Consumer Reports said much the same things about the Volt - they aren't beholden to any ads.

There are few objectively "bad" cars made in 2022, the market has been ruthless at eliminating them. There are mostly just cars that are overpriced for what they offer, compared to competitors in their same class. This Jeep Compass gets a 6/10 priced at 30k for a mid trim model:

If they could somehow sell it at 15k, wow! 9/10. Obviously they can't do that, though, and so it gets what it gets.

There are definitely some restaurants out there serving some objectively bad food and some barber shops giving objectively bad haircuts, though.

I should qualify that by "For sale in the US market" like you can definitely find some cars out there in the world that if Car & Driver were to review them as if they were for sale in the US market they would get a 1/10. They're not for sale here though.

I don't have time to address all your points atm but I'd like to be clear on this point. I'm what many users here consider a "communist", I don't believe in forcing the poor to purchase vehicles they can't afford, and I've made this objection before on another thread by Ricky, who sometimes seems left-wing and at other times doesn't seem particularly left-wing at all.

I have no ire at a low-income person who drives a gas car because that's what they can afford & I don't blame them for anything with respect to what at this time is likely the most pragmatic choice. I don't demand they change that.

I believe in demanding the government to use my taxes to pay to subsidize housing and transportation needs of the poor. vs spending trillions on the defense racket and FUCKING WORTHLESS WARS!

to put it crassly.

But if the only *choices* they have are those that they can't afford, is there really a difference?

One can "blame" them for their plight -- and, for some, its hard to imagine how they can justify "high speed internet, CATV and a fancy phone", but not decent transportation (or healthy food).

Until we come up with a solution that scales well -- in numbers and across income/opportunity groups -- we're just spinning our wheels.

New cars (of any technology) are increasingly difficult for low income folks to afford and maintain. Does that effectively solve the polution and global warming problems by relegating them to mass transit? But, then, what responsibility do we (the "privileged/taxable") have to provide effective mass transit -- even though we don't DIRECTLY benefit from it?

What consequence if those folks can't offer their labor (to *us*!)?

It's not uncommon to pay a few hundred dollars, monthly, to have your yardwork done (and lots are very small, here). What if the guy can't physically *get* to your yard -- would YOU have to pull your own weeds?? (OhMiGosh!)

But if "public policy" reduces their choices, then what? Isn't it hypocritical to tell the developing world that they can't leverage fossil fuels to improve their standard of living -- after we (the developed world) made a mess of things in our efforts to improve ours?

Do we have an obligation to bear deeper cuts and financially subsidize those regions? Doesn't every Indian and Chinaman "deserve" a vehicle? Air conditioning? Quality food?

The gummit will ALWAYS be using your tax dollars to pursue ITS objectives. (_Three Days of the Condor_)

These objectives will coincide with the desires of some. But, as we have a representational democracy (instead of "true") our influence over those policies is, at best, indirect.

I'd say China's well on its way to providing those things to every "Chinaman", long before every Americaman has them..

Or IOW the time the rest of the world dictates what the BRIC nations do is rapidly evaporating, and the time the BRIC nations dictate what the world does seems to be coming fast.

You are like Larkin. When someone is having a discussion where you can't argue the facts, you resort to characterizing them as having unreasonable objections.

The regeneration is the major feature of battery vehicles that saves energy, second only to the high efficiency from being electric. It is why BEVs get better mileage in city driving than highway. In a properly designed car, the regeneration is proportional to the accelerator pedal position, a clean segue from acceleration to deceleration. Flipping paddles to PWM the regeneration is insane. It sounds like something Ed Lee would do and think as wonderful!

They, eventually, close their doors.

Note that the rag doesn't ask folks to *rate* the establishments; and, doesn't tabulate the number of "votes" each received.

So, it is useless for anything more than generating ad revenue (as the folks who respond self-select to do so!)

It engages regeneration at other times under computer control, when the computer thinks it's appropriate to do so, same as any other hybrid car

- if that's what you mean. It's not entirely under manual control.

Why would it not be completely under control of the driver, like the acceleration is? That's what you don't seem to get. It is one continuous control, accelerate, decelerate, all from the same control. It's actually one of the truly great things about a properly designed BEV, the smoothness and responsiveness of the "throttle".

I don't enjoy driving a car that behaves that way personally.

You say "properly designed" but I doubt the overall efficiency gains of having the accelerator behave that way are that amazing vs just letting the car "coast" down when you let up, and let the computer manage the regen, tapping off some energy as it sees fit.My guess would be it's maybe 5-10% at the outside worse that way, it's not gonna be like a 50% difference.

You can drive the Bolt and Volt that way if you want, I've tried it and got like maybe 2 miles better range. Tesla's implementation may be better but what magic do they have to make it something really special.

Also sounds like a good way to be surprised you're not stopping if the computer detects wheelslip and cuts out the regeneration, I don't think it can apply the mechanical brakes as a backup if your foots not on the brake pedal.

It's known to happen in the Leaf and GM's EVs, I doubt Teslas are immune.

I think the last one I bought like that was an '80 Camaro. $99 down and

0% financing through GMAC. The price was right and it fleshed out my credit history.

It is amusing dealing with car salesmen. They're hard wired to discuss financing and keep starting the spiel even after you've told them you're going to write a check.

I didn't realize you have had any cars with regeneration other than the Volt. What was it?

I have no idea what you are talking about when you say the "computer" manages the regen. How would the computer know anything about when to provide regen and how much? What inputs does it use? The Tesla lets you control it when you are driving, or it controls it when on autopilot. It's not that the "regen" is controlled, in that the control is how much power to put back into the battery. It is a way to brake the car. The driver can control that braking or the autopilot can control that braking. The return of power to the battery is the result, not the goal.

The efficiency gains come from using the regen. I never said it had to do with the way the accelerator works.

I've never had an issue with wheelslip, but if that is happening, it is better for the car to manage it than you stepping on the brakes. Either way, in the Tesla, the car will stop as quickly as possible given the traction. Not that I've driven a lot of fancy cars, but the traction control in the Tesla is amazing.

No, road conditions are road conditions. The road doesn't care what car you are driving.

You can get a surprise on a full charged car. The charging rate of the battery is limited enough that somewhere above 90% charge, the regen is limited noticeably. If you charge to 100% and you start out, you won't have regen braking until you've driven off a few percent. That's reason number 23 to not charge to 100%. The only time I charge to 100% is to recal the battery and I recently read that you only need to charge to 95% to do that. Much better.

Same here. About the only rag I trusted was Motorcycle Consumer News. They were completely subscriber supported with no ads. The only possible leverage was they couldn't afford to buy the motorcycles they tested so used the ones provided to the press. That never seemed to hold them back from criticism. Unfortunately they suddenly went out of business in

2020. After the January issue they mailed the subscribers and said that was the last one. If you wanted they would try to refund the unused subscription portion. If any of the writers knew the ax was falling they gave no indication.

Apparently the ferret fanciers were sol too. I knew MCN was published by BowTie Press and assumed BowTie referred to Chevrolet not a bow tie wearing pet lover with some weird link to motorcycles.