The future of the PC and especially processors and software.

I will write one more post for now with my thoughts on where the PC is goin g and also processors and software.

AMD has recently proven that it is possible to place 64 cores on a chip and this is going to revolutionize the software industry. At least it has the potential to do so.

Multi-threaded software will become the norm instead of the exception. This will automatically create even more demand for even more cores. Cause if a ll software is written for 64 cores for example, one would need even more c ores to be able to multi-task between different programs.

However producing these processors require machines from ASML a dutch compa ny and the only company in the world that makes these machines. Recently it seems TRUMP administration give "advise" to dutch goverment to NOT sell on e of these 500 million dollar costing machines to CHINA for fears of chips being used for the MILITARY.

CHINA is very important for the ENTIRE world and especially USA. Apple made billions selling iPhones produced in CHINA. Microsoft makes billions by se lling software to PC's of which components are produced in CHINA.

Financial companies, oil companies, aviation/aircraft designers, hollywood film studies, internet/the web, all of these companies/services could very well dependent on hardware manufactured in CHINA.

The list goes on and on and on.

Not delivering chip manufacturing machines to CHINA could hurt world wide e conomy and especially USA/Silicon Valley and it's software industry.

So far CHINA is a pretty good trade partner and I cannot recall any WARS wi th CHINA and thus these concerns for military abuse are a bit far fetched, there is no evidence for this as far as I know off. Spies could be sent to CHINA to spy on if there is any thruth to this and if there is any reason f or concerns. CHINA also needs military to defend itself against any aggress ion.

Anyway, this has also placed the dutch goverment in an impossible position between two almost super powers or at least very big economies and this is somewhat unreasonable and akward thing to do for TRUMP administration. CHIN A could also try and force DUTCH not to deliver machines to USA or else fac e trade-bans and such.

My advise to TRUMP administration is to revoke this "advise" to dutch gover ment because if a wrong decision is made it might affect world wide economy and it may/might have unforseen consequences and might spiral into a situa tion that nobody likes.

The people in dutch goverment are not the most well-informed and are not th e most tech savy people. Yet now they must make a decision that may have fa r reaching consequences. They are good managers though I think and I hope a nd I do think they will let themselfes get informed well and I hope they wi ll make a good decision.

However it would be better if USA/Trump administration would retract their concerns for the good of the economy. USA does have nuclear bombs, stealth bombers and B2 bombers and nasty sub marines and could probably take on CHI NA if really necessary so this military concern seems somewhat unrealistic or somewhat unnecessary.

Towards the future it is also uncertain what will happen. If trump is re-el ected will there be more "advises" to the dutch goverment about deliverance /approval of ASML chip manufacturing machines ?

This could seriously throw a wrench in the advancement of computer chips an d the multi-core "revolution" that is about to begin. It could also raise c hip prices in the future. It's hard for me to tell and unknown which CHINA companies would be affected by these "bans" and which "chip design" compani es would be hit by this. It may affect NVIDIA, AMD and others using CHINA m anufacturing companies.

USA also borrowed lots of money from CHINA. Apple does not pay much if any taxes to US treasury. As well as some other companies. Trump could "earn" t he US treasury much more "CASH/MONEY" by demanding these TECH companies pay TAXES. This may be a better approach then fighting china over "pennies" ba sically.

Enough about these politics for now.

Another topic is Microsoft and it's product Microsoft Windows. It is most l ikely that AMD will push on with Threadripper designs and scale up the core s even more as Moore's Law continues.

My assumption is that is transisters are halved in size, 4 times the capaci ty becomes available on the chip in 2 dimensions. For now 5 nanometer seems next, however 3 nanometer, 1.5 nanometer and even 1 or 0.5 nanometer seems doable.

This means that threadripper design can evolve/scale up to

4x64 = 256 cores from 7 nm to 3.5 and another scale up to 4x256 cores = 1000 from 3.5 to roughly 1.75 nanometer s and another scale up from 1.75 to 0.97 nanometers 1000x4 = 4000 cores.

Perhaps my halving of the size in both dimensions is a bit optimistic and n ot realistic I don't know about that, but perhaps.

At the very least it should go from:

7 nanometers now, 64 to: 3.5 nanometers, 128 1.75 nanometers, 256 0.97 nanometers, 512 And maybe even 0.5 nanomenters 1024.

5 x 1.5 = 7 years.

So my prediction at least follow Moore's law is that in 7 years there will be at least a 1000 core processor.

And if it's done in both sizes it might well be 8000 core processor.

So roughly speaking in 10 years time it will go from 64 to 10.000 core proc essor in best case scenerio ! ;)

Whatever the case may be it seems clear that Microsoft would be wise to ade pt to this new reality and make Windows suited for many-core processor desi gns.

Microsoft currently has Windows Server, perhaps this is a better choice, I don't know.

Windows 10 seems limited to 64 cores currently and may look obsolete very s oon, don't know about that, but it's a bit of a concern.

Failure of Microsoft to adept Windows to this quickly changing reality may lead to Windows being overtaken by the inferior Linux Operating System whic h has much inferior GUI.

I would hate to see this happens since the Linux GUI does not provide all t he nice information that Windows GUI provides. So my hope is that Microsoft took note of Threadripper 3 3900x and realizes this is a game changer.

These kinds of processors have also been available for servers, the EPYC li ne of processors from AMD.

So in short for now:

My advise to Microsoft is:

Design an operating system for 1000 core and 10.000 core processors. This i s coming sooner than many people will think ! ;) :)

Nothing is stopping AMD from evolving/extending the Open Source Linux opera ting system, and thus for AMD there is no real barrier to continue scaling up their processors by introducing more and more cores.

Bye for now, Skybuck.

Reply to
skybuck2000
Loading thread data ...

snipped-for-privacy@hotmail.com wrote in news: snipped-for-privacy@googlegroups.com:

You are lost. Multi-threaded processing has been around for decades.

And so too the software.

Plenty of examples and proofs. Hell even graphics subsystems do it. Ever heard of CUDA?

You been the one sleepin' and you think you are giving us a wake up...

Bwuahahahaha!

Please also take apart and break the computer you are on now so we do not have to see this crap for at least a while.

Reply to
DecadentLinuxUserNumeroUno

snipped-for-privacy@hotmail.com wrote in news:46638391-8249-4ab6-b0a6- snipped-for-privacy@googlegroups.com:

You are a true idiot.

For one thing it was hard enough to get to 64 bit, and it is the rest of the gear not just the CPU. MAYBE go to 128, but not much need to go further and by then we will have optical computers and quantum computers kicking their asses. A 4 bit optical computer can kick any silicon switches ass. Once we get there, transistor based switching will get surpassed

We are down near atom sized features now. Elements 50 atoms wide and less. We will not likely be going much smaller than say 3.5nm. There are limits to how small a switch can be made and I do not simply refer to our optical limitations.

Reply to
DecadentLinuxUserNumeroUno

You seem ready to get things going in the right direction. Are they aware of you?

Reply to
Sea

They should be so lucky !!

Reply to
RheillyPhoull

snipped-for-privacy@decadence.org wrote in news:r1qdk9$1pkl$1 @gioia.aioe.org:

can

Likely be a while before we even get to much less past this node. The chips look cool. But this nears the limit. READ UP.

Reply to
DecadentLinuxUserNumeroUno

On Sunday, February 9, 2020 at 7:34:34 PM UTC-5, snipped-for-privacy@hotmail.com wrote :

ing and also processors and software.

nd this is going to revolutionize the software industry. At least it has th e potential to do so.

is will automatically create even more demand for even more cores. Cause if all software is written for 64 cores for example, one would need even more cores to be able to multi-task between different programs.

pany and the only company in the world that makes these machines. Recently it seems TRUMP administration give "advise" to dutch goverment to NOT sell one of these 500 million dollar costing machines to CHINA for fears of chip s being used for the MILITARY.

de billions selling iPhones produced in CHINA. Microsoft makes billions by selling software to PC's of which components are produced in CHINA.

d film studies, internet/the web, all of these companies/services could ver y well dependent on hardware manufactured in CHINA.

economy and especially USA/Silicon Valley and it's software industry.

with CHINA and thus these concerns for military abuse are a bit far fetched , there is no evidence for this as far as I know off. Spies could be sent t o CHINA to spy on if there is any thruth to this and if there is any reason for concerns. CHINA also needs military to defend itself against any aggre ssion.

n between two almost super powers or at least very big economies and this i s somewhat unreasonable and akward thing to do for TRUMP administration. CH INA could also try and force DUTCH not to deliver machines to USA or else f ace trade-bans and such.

erment because if a wrong decision is made it might affect world wide econo my and it may/might have unforseen consequences and might spiral into a sit uation that nobody likes.

the most tech savy people. Yet now they must make a decision that may have far reaching consequences. They are good managers though I think and I hope and I do think they will let themselfes get informed well and I hope they will make a good decision.

r concerns for the good of the economy. USA does have nuclear bombs, stealt h bombers and B2 bombers and nasty sub marines and could probably take on C HINA if really necessary so this military concern seems somewhat unrealisti c or somewhat unnecessary.

elected will there be more "advises" to the dutch goverment about deliveran ce/approval of ASML chip manufacturing machines ?

and the multi-core "revolution" that is about to begin. It could also raise chip prices in the future. It's hard for me to tell and unknown which CHIN A companies would be affected by these "bans" and which "chip design" compa nies would be hit by this. It may affect NVIDIA, AMD and others using CHINA manufacturing companies.

y taxes to US treasury. As well as some other companies. Trump could "earn" the US treasury much more "CASH/MONEY" by demanding these TECH companies p ay TAXES. This may be a better approach then fighting china over "pennies" basically.

likely that AMD will push on with Threadripper designs and scale up the co res even more as Moore's Law continues.

city becomes available on the chip in 2 dimensions. For now 5 nanometer see ms next, however 3 nanometer, 1.5 nanometer and even 1 or 0.5 nanometer see ms doable.

ers

not realistic I don't know about that, but perhaps.

l be at least a 1000 core processor.

ocessor in best case scenerio ! ;)

dept to this new reality and make Windows suited for many-core processor de signs.

I don't know.

soon, don't know about that, but it's a bit of a concern.

y lead to Windows being overtaken by the inferior Linux Operating System wh ich has much inferior GUI.

the nice information that Windows GUI provides. So my hope is that Microso ft took note of Threadripper 3 3900x and realizes this is a game changer.

line of processors from AMD.

is coming sooner than many people will think ! ;) :)

rating system, and thus for AMD there is no real barrier to continue scalin g up their processors by introducing more and more cores.

Yeah, I saw the 64 CPU chip for $4000. I haven't seen a benchmark yet. It won't run 64 times faster than a 1 CPU chip because memory becomes a bottl eneck at some point. I recall reading a paper some time back where they in dicated with one memory channel the impact on CPU performance starts to be very noticeable at about 8 processors. Adding more processors past that pr ovides smaller and smaller increases in performance. A 64 core CPU has 128 threads which just can't be supported by even 2 memory channels. Does thi s processor have 4 or more memory channels???

I can't see where this processor is of much use other than in very limited applications where only limited use of main memory is needed and most data and code will fit in the CPU cache.

--

  Rick C. 

  - Get 1,000 miles of free Supercharging 
  - Tesla referral code - https://ts.la/richard11209
Reply to
Rick C

We know where it's going. The PC market peaked eight years ago and has been declining ever since.

Nuff said.

Reply to
Whoey Louie

Whoey Louie wrote in news: snipped-for-privacy@googlegroups.com:

So, you think you are going to have a supercomputer phone?

No. Sales took a hit because of tablets, phones, and notebooks, but it is going to be around for a very long time. There will always be scientists whom want a computer at their disposal at home.

Goddamned retarded trader boy mentality... so stupid... every time. If you were any good at it, you would be rich. nuff said there... indeed.

Reply to
DecadentLinuxUserNumeroUno

A phone is not a PC stupid.

Thank you Captain Obvious.

There will always

And that's a market of how many, exactly?

You're wrong, always wrong

Another example of why you're always wrong is posting stupid things, like claiming I'm not rich when everyone knows you have no way of knowing.

Reply to
Whoey Louie

Whoey Louie wrote in news:428264c7-bf1b-4575- snipped-for-privacy@googlegroups.com:

Oh, they most certainly are, stupid child.

There are phones with micro-HDMI output, and nearly all can stream OUT. That means they can be put on a display and then used no differently than a PC. One is already able to add things like keyboards, POS attachments.

You be blind traitor boy.

Reply to
DecadentLinuxUserNumeroUno

Whoey Louie wrote in news:428264c7-bf1b-4575- snipped-for-privacy@googlegroups.com:

Yuo are like the retarded punks who put down Linux.

Nice try. Linux rules... just like it always did.

"Your appeal is denied, like you knew it would be..." -Cardinal Richelieu (

Reply to
DecadentLinuxUserNumeroUno

LOL 7 NM RETARD.

0.5 is already done.
Reply to
skybuck2000

NOPE, sales are increasing for the first time in a few years ! HAHA.

READ MORE NEWS ! =D

Surely RYZEN/AMD has something to do with that ! ;) =D

Bye, Skybuck =D

Reply to
skybuck2000

snipped-for-privacy@hotmail.com wrote in news:2894896c-0c8d-46b6-904c- snipped-for-privacy@googlegroups.com:

Idiot. The OS manages more than just the file system.

Your brain is on a single thread, and the code is errant. THAT is your problem.

Reply to
DecadentLinuxUserNumeroUno

snipped-for-privacy@hotmail.com wrote in news: snipped-for-privacy@googlegroups.com:

Learn how an operating system evolved and works, dipshit.

Reply to
DecadentLinuxUserNumeroUno

snipped-for-privacy@hotmail.com wrote in news:945d0517-9403-4b9f-ad1c- snipped-for-privacy@googlegroups.com:

ummm... nope.

Reply to
DecadentLinuxUserNumeroUno

snipped-for-privacy@hotmail.com wrote in news:945d0517-9403-4b9f-ad1c- snipped-for-privacy@googlegroups.com:

You act like an asshole that used to post in all caps up in alt.engineering.electrical for years.

But he was a retarded new yorker. You are a retarded other side of the pond twit suckling on Mommy and Daddy's wealth for decades.

Reply to
DecadentLinuxUserNumeroUno

snipped-for-privacy@hotmail.com wrote in news: snipped-for-privacy@googlegroups.com:

You are stupid, boy. 7nm multi-billion element chips are being made.

Some lab made a single element 0.5 nm transistor. NOT a CHIP. Proof of concept, at best.

BIG DIFFERENCE, you retarded child.

Reply to
DecadentLinuxUserNumeroUno

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