Tell Butterball to Stop Torturing Turkeys

Statistics? Those with good genetics live longer. ...Jim Thompson

Where did you get that? Check any nutritional info source... This is just the sort of bias that is hard to overcome.

Actually they are omnivores. The point is that red meat is not an essential nutrient.

I grew up eating what everyone else did, then in college I went veggie partly because of the various ideological reasons, but also because I was college poor. Once I got the taste of veggie I didn't enjoy meat as much. In fact, to this day I can't stand the smell of a steak dripping grease onto a grill. It almost turns my stomach.

At 6'1" and 210 lbs I don't think anyone will call me sickly. lol The second best thing I ever did for my health was to take up kayaking.

Eggactly. It is not hard to get B-12. I am not a vegetarian strictly. I eat seafood which is also a good source of B-12. If you don't eat dairy the term is vegan... no animal product at all.

Even veggies propagate this myth. I researched this a couple of years ago. I had read "Diet for a Small Planet" in my college years which was

never said you *had* to do that to get the right ratios or even that the "right ratios" were important. She talked about this to counter the myth that had come from research done in the 50's on *rats* and did not apply to humans.

All you need is to meet your minimum amounts of each essential amino acid which nearly all vegetables will give you if you eat enough to satisfy your caloric needs. As with all protein, any excess you consume is burned for calories. Check it out with primary sources. You won't find any research that says veggies aren't good enough protein without balancing the different types.

And then wash the B-12 back out with your wine and/or beer. Check it out... although it might not be a problem with shots since alcohol interferes with the absorption rather than utilization I believe. Maybe that is why you need the shots.

It may be true that *you* aren't advocating that folks not eat meat. But not eating meat is a great way to end the suffering of these animals.

You bet! That's the best part about Thanksgiving dinner; leftovers. ;-)

We don't have any family in the area, so the two of us get the whole thing. ;-)

I checked a banana site. Please refer us all to a site that claims B-vitamins.

Sure it is, unless you're inclined to be a fairy... which you obviously are >:-}

Poor baby.

How old are you? ...Jim Thompson

I'm just shy of 75... how old are you? ...Jim Thompson

Do you remember my telling of how my grandfather collected up chickens for dinner ?>:-} ...Jim Thompson

I'm not a spring chicken, but what does that have to do with it? Are you saying they are barely keeping you alive with injections and tubes all through your body like a character from Dr Who? Your B-12 shots are the last defense between you and the great void? Is one of your aliases "The Face of Boe"?

I didn't even have to go to a separate site. I typed, "banana nutrition" into google and the search results page shows the nutritional breakdown. Add USDA to the search and this is the first link...

Now you are channeling all the obnoxious people here in s.e.d. Is that your intent?

I think this discussion is at an end. You have gone from disagreeing with me to insulting me because... well, I don't know why.

I eat animals occasionally--they're too tasty to pass up. And we're made t o eat them. But I'm pretty close to a 95/5 kinda guy.

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"Meeting your minimum amounts of each essential amino acid" is consistent with the balancing criterion. You might have to over-eat to get enough of the scarcer AA's though, if you're just eating them willy-nilly.

I worked out a bunch of combos using the USDA nutrition database, as brainteasers. Adequate supply isn't guaranteed. If you lose 2/3rds of your effective protein intake due to lack of some AA, that's hard to cure--you'd have to triple your feed.

It's not hard. Legumes+grains, or anything + dairy is pretty easy, and works fine. Nature enforces this by making whatever you've had too much of look awful, and whatever you need to fix it appealing. (Works for rice and beans, anyhow. Artificial foods, not so much.)

Cheers, James Arthur

Poor B-12 absorption is common, with age.

Cheers, James Arthur

You're a young punk... all mouth and no brains. Other than that you're perfectly normal >:-} ...Jim Thompson

The B-12 keeps spring in my step ;-) ...Jim Thompson

Yep. But all mouth/no brains wouldn't know that. ...Jim Thompson

carne ;-)

As any good omnivore would. The side effects will make you stand out like a lighthouse to any real carnivore with a working olefactory system, but abo ut half the genes in the human olefactory system have mutated into useless

- possibly in self-protection against living close to lots of other people who couldn't digest meat or beans all that effectively.

Yes, I spent some time in slaughter houses recently, to get blood samples. Horrific. I'm in favor of, If you hunt them, you eat them Occasionally a hunter will shoot a bear, and it charges the hunter and kills him.

A big health problem which is below the radar concerns the iron content of meat. Men by age 40 have 4 times the amount of iron they need in their bodies. There is no way to excrete iron. Post-menstrual women have this problem as well. This iron is primarily stored in ferritin in the liver.

The problem with having excess iron in your body is that iron is a poison, leading to high oxidative status and inflammation. Check out aging meat-eaters: many are afflicted with arthritis, pains, and various diseases of inflammation like heart disease, alzheimers, poor eyesight, low energy - the systemic diseases. The solution is simple: Go to the Red Cross and give blood.

As a side-note, the battle called infection is all about iron. Many microbes need iron, and they have to grab it from the body, Ferritin, the body's iron carrier, tries to hide the iron from invaders. But they have iron grabbers with equilibrium constants higher than ferritin. So the body lowers blood iron, and you have the anemia of infection.

Malaria is an exception, as it invades the blood cells themselves, so has plenty of iron. It has too much, so it stores away the iron as it eats the hemoglobin inside the erythrocyte. It's iron stores are highly magnetic, unlike the weak paramagnetism of ferritin. You can actually separate red cells from the blood of malaria patients by holding a strong magnet near it. (Malaria Methods - Dooley 2002.)