Solar cheaper than nuclear

30% efficiency.

Price, like the applications, astronomical, and availability likely makes M*x*m look attractive.

Best regards, Spehro Pefhany

--
"it's the network..."                          "The Journey is the reward"
speff@interlog.com             Info for manufacturers: http://www.trexon.com
Embedded software/hardware/analog  Info for designers:  http://www.speff.com

Well, it better not be more expensive than PV+battery

--
Dirk

http://www.transcendence.me.uk/ - Transcendence UK
http://www.blogtalkradio.com/onetribe - Occult Talk Show

I already asked you to point me to a battery which costs less than the equivalent cost of grid electricity it can discharge in its lifetime never mind the PV + other crap required.

Just a little back of the envelope calcs:

12 volt, 100 AH deep cycle stores 1.2 kWh x 500 cycles = 600 kWh These go for about $100 + and they make bazillions of them for the auto industry. So price is more or less fixed.

600 kWh @ $ 0.1 per = $60

And that doesn't count the solar hardware.

--- news://freenews.netfront.net/ - complaints: snipped-for-privacy@netfront.net ---

Have you priced 20KW PSUs recently?

I have. I'm tenatively offering 10kW induction heaters for $2000.

Want one?

Tim

--
Deep Friar: a very philosophical monk.
Website: http://webpages.charter.net/dawill/tmoranwms

Let me know when they're $10.

Not simulation, stimulation.

-- Grins, James Arthur

I think I can sell you a bridge that cheap ;-)

Tim

--
Deep Friar: a very philosophical monk.
Website: http://webpages.charter.net/dawill/tmoranwms

And LiFeP battery lifetime is around 7000 cycles.

--
Dirk

http://www.transcendence.me.uk/ - Transcendence UK
http://www.blogtalkradio.com/onetribe - Occult Talk Show

So why have one vastly overpriced and undermanufactured 20kW PSU when you can have 20 for far less cash? The trend is going to be one integrated PSU per panel. Manufactured in the hundreds of millions per year.

--
Dirk

http://www.transcendence.me.uk/ - Transcendence UK
http://www.blogtalkradio.com/onetribe - Occult Talk Show

Good point, the factories should start to put dummy-panels on their roof.

Are you suggesting that solar panel factories are really in the dummy manufacturing business? Hmm, I think you're onto something here.

With google you'll find many sites to help you building your own energy-plants

Solarpanels in 2004 costs were ? 7,55 W/P In 2008 it was ? 5,00 W/P in 2009 it was ? 4,50 W/P Now they cost ? 2,05 W/P

In 2015 it will be about ? 1,00 W/P or less, so solarpower has a future!

--
Ik praat liever tegen een domoor, dan tegen dovemansoren.

The grid in my country is getting more expensive by time. Every year I have used the same amound of energy, but the prices is about ? 100,00 more. With an of-grid installation, it's only a matter of time to be cheaper as the energycompany.

It doesn't matter how you generate your energy, it's just cheaper to use the energy around us like sun, wind or water. You just need the space to build your plant and the money to invest.

If you're living in a big building with many other families, you probably have no chance to generate your own energy, except methangas.

--
Ik praat liever tegen een domoor, dan tegen dovemansoren.

Really disconnnecting yourself from the grid implies having some other method of providing power when your solar panels won't. Energy storage is a problem. Batteries are expensive, and have a short life. And even if you've installed batteries to handle the nightly loss of solar power, you still need something else to cope with cloudy days. Your ultimate backstop is presumably a fossil fueled generator, even if you hope not to use it much.

All of this costs money. Getting a really independent system down anywhere near the cost of grid power is a tall order.

I suppose some people might be happy to use power when it's available, and do without when it's not, but few would willing to live that way.

Money invested has a cost. At its simplest the cost is the interest forgone - instead of buying the gear to produce your energy, you could have put the money in the bank, earned interest on it, and used the interest to buy energ from the grid instead.

Even if you do decide to buy the plant, it won't last forever (batteries particularly), so you need to allow for future replacement. It's not a one-off investment.

Sylvia.

lants

!

Solar power has always had a future. The question is whether it will ever have a present. ...quite like fusion.

ina...

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.

Nobody assumes linearity. If you had any clue about the relationships involved, you'd know that they weren't linear.

Not a claim that you'd make if you'd actually looked at the evidence, rather than swallowed the codswallop presented on yoiur favourite denialist web-site.

You look at CO2's absorbtion lines with an infra-red spectrometer, and you can work out what these absorbtion lines are doing to the relevant infra-red-bands being radiated by the earth. You - personally - would have to get to grips with "pressure broadening" whch changes the shape of the individual CO2 absorption lines as you move up through the atmosphere, and the total atmospheric pressure drops and the partial pressure of water vapour declines even faster - but that's all experimentally measured evidence rather than some untested and hypothetical theory.

Does David H. Freedman's book actually mention global warming? There are plenty of bogus experts around, and whenever you spout your opinions on global warming you join their ranks.

It doesn't. The distribution of the predictions for global means surface temperature rise for 2100 may look like a normal distribution, but the likeliest prediction sits at around 3.5C hotter, and nobody is predicting zero change, or a cooling back to what it was in 1900.

Perhaps. Until the consequent climate excursions get too expensive. The Russians aren't enjoying their unusually hot summer and the wide- spread bush-fires that have come with it, but this might still just be a particularly improbable deviation from the historical norm rather than a tolerably likely deviation in the series of progressively warmer summers that the current global warming has already delivered - a warming of 0.74 =B1 0.18 =B0C (1.33 =B1 0.32 =B0F= ) during the 20th century.

You burn your carbon and they take their chances.

-- Bill Sloman, Nijmegen

It depends on how much electricity you're using every day.

In fact I doesn't like any politician, I have been in politics for a few years. I've lost my faith in politicians.

English is not my main-language, I have no better expression, but you know I meaned to say "generate"

True, I don't believe in fusion.

Why?

It seems you are afraid of losing money. I have no problems with paying taxes. I don't rip anybody, I'm just experimenting with generating electricity, Every few months I buy a part. No taxpayer payed for my investment. In fact, I pay tax for the parts I bought, so you should be happy!

I 'm living the alternative way, just staying alive. I use about 2000KW a year, just because my computer consumes to much. I'm trying to reduce my energy needs to 1000KW a year, hope to get there in 2012.

--
Ik praat liever tegen een domoor, dan tegen dovemansoren.