Should a non-degree'd personal do product development ??

Actually tablet computers have been around and used for over a decade. They never became mainstream until a few years ago.

That's correct if T(s) = (s+0.5)/(s+3) (note the parenthesis!).

Rewriting T(s) as they did makes explicit that its DC gain is 1/6, that it has a zero at w=0.5 and a pole at w=3.

Gain (in dB) over w is then

a(w) = 20 log (1/6) + 20 log |1+jw/0.5| - 20 log |1+jw/3|

Is that what it said?

Jeroen Belleman

nt ?

I wouldnt assume degreed people get it either. You only need to get a reasonable %age of it all to pass, one can flunk a whole area and still get a decent degree grade.

NT

do

to do.

But why not other fields or professions such as legal, accounting or medical? Why just engineering?

attempting to retain the useful gear. I, the mere "Research Associate", thought to save the manuals, software, and schematics for the gear, which they trashed. I then grabbed the special tooling for the systems.

explained how to evaluate their functionality.

by merely looking at the material and its location. I keep a pancake  counter solely for this purpose. I work in some very nasty R&D  labs.

a two year secretarial degree that screen resumes.  Once I do that, I can do very good work for my employers.

were married".

produced. It gets worse when I tell them it was sold in Walmart, Radio Shack, and Sears Hardware. It gets even more difficult when I tell them my last commercial design was just bought by the Chicago PD, 8000 units at 8K a pop.

metal lathe will be at my disposal.  I try not to ask that question any more.

by employers. I'm not ashamed of it, it was a TOUGH program.

your left, look to your right, count to nine, and guess if you will be one of the nine we keep." I could not teach myself the math fast enought. The math instructors were foreign TAs, so the profs did not have to "waste" time teaching undergrads.

as the location of his office, I might have had a chance.

You shouldn't be. By the time I got to college, I had almost a decade of serious electronics experimenting and design behind me, some of it professional. I knew what the curves should look like, and how much scatter was reasonable.

The student electronics lab at Tulane had a master power supply that was wired to all the benches. The +150 rail had about 40 volts p-p of ripple. The guys who stayed, and measured the frequency response of a class-A tube amp, got remarkable data plots. My data, entirely faked, was more like correct. The tech who ran the lab was such an ass, I didn't bother to tell him.

I suspect that Dr Seto spent less time correcting lab reports than he spent supervising the labs.

nt ?

If you could send me an e-mail at:

sidneybek(at)yahoo.com

it's about the Simpson 260 analog VOM who had for sale back in September on sci.electronic,design, Thank you.

Yes, now that you mention it... They were full PCs, with pen input. They worked for filling out forms but not much else.

When touch screens became useful.

Maybe he wasn't so clueless. Doesn't that sound like a good way to detect cheaters? Anyone who turned in a clean plot either didn't do the experiment or laundered the data.

A further innovation might have been to cap the student's grade at a C

• if they didn't call attention to the ripple in their report or at least ask the TA why it's there.

It would be fun to run an undergrad EE lab.

-- john

I got A's, so it must have not worked. Really, it was just a crap power supply with dried-out electrolytic caps. He was clueless: trust me.

The guys were all using VTVMs to get their data, as instructed. I noticed that the output level never changed, so I looked at it with a scope. A quick sweep of the sig gen got me the low and high 3 dB points, all I needed to fake the curve.

Actually, it would, for a while anyway. It's probably like teaching music... you suffer through the duds, hoping to once in a while find a kid with talent.

lab, attempting to retain the useful gear. I, the mere "Research Associate= ", thought to save the manuals, software, and schematics for the gear, whic= h they trashed. I then grabbed the special tooling for the systems.

xplained how to evaluate their functionality.

ource by merely looking at the material and its location. I keep a pancake = =A0counter solely for this purpose. I work in some very nasty R&D =A0labs.

s with a two year secretarial degree that screen resumes. =A0Once I do that= , I can do very good work for my employers.

nts were married".

mass produced. It gets worse when I tell them it was sold in Walmart, Radi= o Shack, and Sears Hardware. It gets even more difficult when I tell them m= y last commercial design was just bought by the Chicago PD, 8000 units at 8= K a pop.

ill and a metal lathe will be at my disposal. =A0I try not to ask that ques= tion any more.

esired by employers. I'm not ashamed of it, it was a TOUGH program.

=A0"Look to your left, look to your right, count to nine, and guess if you = will be one of the nine we keep." I could not teach myself the math fast en= ought. The math instructors were foreign TAs, so the profs did not have to = "waste" time teaching undergrads.

closet as the location of his office, I might have had a chance.

is

on

ror.

And I'd learned enough about ethical behaviour not to lie about the data I was presenting.

We had a couple of experiments that didn't work. One was entirely stupid - the printed instructions told you to add alcohol drop-wise to ammonium copper sulphate solution to precipitate crystals, and if you did as you were told you got a finely divided blue sludge. Pouring the alcohol in in lump gave you crystals that looked like crystals. I managed to repeat the preparation three time in one three hour practical class, with three identical - inconvenient - results. I mentioned it in a letter home, and got told - by both my parents - that they knew that you had to pour in the ethanol quickly. Apparently you can measure the chain length of cellulose molecules by complexing them with copper ammonium sulphate and measuring the viscosity of the consequent solution and both of them had done it at the bench at the paper mill where they'd courted and where my father still worked at that time (albeit as research manger rather than at the bench).

The other was just as stupid, but at higher level. If you looked at the literature - as I ended up doing - you found that you had to get the electrodes very clean - as in heated under good vacuum - before the electrode potentials would settle fast enough to be useful.

What I turned in as a lab report was in fact a literature review.It got decent marks.

-- Bill Sloman, Nijmegen

lab, attempting to retain the useful gear. I, the mere "Research Associate", thought to save the manuals, software, and schematics for the gear, which they trashed. I then grabbed the special tooling for the systems.

explained how to evaluate their functionality.

source by merely looking at the material and its location. I keep a pancake  counter solely for this purpose. I work in some very nasty R&D  labs.

with a two year secretarial degree that screen resumes.  Once I do that, I can do very good work for my employers.

were married".

mass produced. It gets worse when I tell them it was sold in Walmart, Radio Shack, and Sears Hardware. It gets even more difficult when I tell them my last commercial design was just bought by the Chicago PD, 8000 units at 8K a pop.

and a metal lathe will be at my disposal.  I try not to ask that question any more.

desired by employers. I'm not ashamed of it, it was a TOUGH program.

your left, look to your right, count to nine, and guess if you will be one of the nine we keep." I could not teach myself the math fast enought. The math instructors were foreign TAs, so the profs did not have to "waste" time teaching undergrads.

closet as the location of his office, I might have had a chance.

My data wasn't a lie. I had the shape right and the 3dB points right, so it was much closer to the actual amplifier behavior than anyone else's. The other guys' data, mindlessly taken as instructed, was the lie.

If the instructor had asked me how I got the data (which he didn't) I would have explained it. I used a scope, saw the ripple and the signal riding on it, eyeballed the 3dB points, and drew the graph from how I knew it had to behave.

Actually they where quite popular by stock traders. IIRC one set cost around $20000 (yes, 4 zeroes).

old lab, attempting to retain the useful gear. I, the mere "Research Associ= ate", thought to save the manuals, software, and schematics for the gear, w= hich they trashed. I then grabbed the special tooling for the systems.

d explained how to evaluate their functionality.

e source by merely looking at the material and its location. I keep a panca= ke =A0counter solely for this purpose. I work in some very nasty R&D =A0lab= s.

ones with a two year secretarial degree that screen resumes. =A0Once I do t= hat, I can do very good work for my employers.

arents were married".

uct mass produced. It gets worse when I tell them it was sold in Walmart, R= adio Shack, and Sears Hardware. It gets even more difficult when I tell the= m my last commercial design was just bought by the Chicago PD, 8000 units a= t 8K a pop.

a mill and a metal lathe will be at my disposal. =A0I try not to ask that q= uestion any more.

y desired by employers. I'm not ashamed of it, it was a TOUGH program.

=A0"Look to your left, look to your right, count to nine, and guess if you= will be one of the nine we keep." I could not teach myself the math fast e= nought. The math instructors were foreign TAs, so the profs did not have to= "waste" time teaching undergrads.

a closet as the location of his office, I might have had a chance.

d his

oon

the

reson

error.

It wasn't your data, collected in the lab. That makes it a lie.

Actually, in real life, you have to deal with the data you get, rather than the data you think you ought to have got. Part of doing practical work is learning how things can go wrong.

And the habit of producing the data that you think you ought to have got, rather than engaging with the data you really got isn't one that you want inculcated into junior engineers, or anybody else who is finding out about the real world. Mark Hauser seems to have acquired the habit, with fatal results for his career - and it didn't work to the advantage of people who had had the bad luck to have collaborated with him.

But you didn't. You though yourself too clever to have to bother.

-- Bill Sloman, Nijmegen

Again, limited use; forms. Doctors used them too, but why so expensive? The ones I saw (IBM then Lenovo) weren't much more expensive than normal laptops.

Jeroen Belleman expounded in news:jm3hnk$7pf$ snipped-for-privacy@speranza.aioe.org:

...

...

Yes- apologies re ( )'s .

Essentially, except for the sign: z1=-0.5, p1=-3, and they state that "The gain constant equals K = 1/6" from page 81, example 3.4.

My beef is that for Eq 3.49 on page 79 they show:

a(w) = 20 log |K*(z1/p1)| + 20 log |1+jw/z1| -20 log |1+jw/p1| (Eq 3.49) ^^^^^^^^^

(where a = alpha, w = omega).

So what happened to the z1/p1 in the first term? This is based upon the earlier equation 3.48 which was presented as :

T(jw) = |K*(z1/p1)| * |1+jw/z1| / |1+jw/p1| (Eq 3.48)

Did confusion start in Eq 3.47 (see page 78 below)? They have a middle equation, then refactored at right with K _and_ p1/z1. Or maybe its me that is still confused.

On one hand they say K=1/6, but if you were to take the magnitude of K * z1/p1, then you'd wind up with 1/36 instead. There's no w there, so how do z1 and p1 drop out?

I can't help but think K is double counted.

Yes, except that they reworked the magnitudes as:

a(w) = ... + 10 log [ 1 + (w/0.5)^2 ] - 10 log [ 1 + (w/3)^2 ]

I've scanned pages 78, 79 and 81 and put them here to make it easier to discuss:

(

Warren

Spehro Pefhany expounded in news:arl9o79b92h620pneqgdeaolk48jtuak6t@

..

I've put pages 78, 79 and 81 up here:

which should be publically readable.

Jeroen Belleman replied as well - see my reply to him. I've explanded upon my beef/confusion in greater detail there.

Thanks, Warren.

Les Cargill expounded in news:jm2lo4$ha0$ snipped-for-privacy@dont-email.me:

..

I've scanned pages 78, 79 and 81 and put them up here:

Look at page 81, Eq 3.58. It doesn't show well in ascii but I believe they are just making the point that they substitute jw for s in the right most equation.

After you look at the pages (above) it should be clearer. As I replied to Jeroen Belleman's post, I think that K has been counted twice. Or at least that seems to be the source of my confusion. See my reply to Jeroen for more.

Warren.

lab, attempting to retain the useful gear. I, the mere "Research Associate", thought to save the manuals, software, and schematics for the gear, which they trashed. I then grabbed the special tooling for the systems.

explained how to evaluate their functionality.

source by merely looking at the material and its location. I keep a pancake  counter solely for this purpose. I work in some very nasty R&D  labs.

with a two year secretarial degree that screen resumes.  Once I do that, I can do very good work for my employers.

parents were married".

mass produced. It gets worse when I tell them it was sold in Walmart, Radio Shack, and Sears Hardware. It gets even more difficult when I tell them my last commercial design was just bought by the Chicago PD, 8000 units at 8K a pop.

and a metal lathe will be at my disposal.  I try not to ask that question any more.

desired by employers. I'm not ashamed of it, it was a TOUGH program.

to your left, look to your right, count to nine, and guess if you will be one of the nine we keep." I could not teach myself the math fast enought. The math instructors were foreign TAs, so the profs did not have to "waste" time teaching undergrads.

closet as the location of his office, I might have had a chance.

You are lecturing me on being practical? On real life? I design 20 so complex PCBs and products per year, and you do essentially nothing.

THIS is practical, brand new web page:

It's a very versatile and generalized DSP-based architecture for LVDT/synchro/resolver simulation. Next step is to do some serious synchro tracking algorithms, for the input direction.

(Click the cool "change view" gadgets. The Brat invented that. She did the board layout, too. I was skeptical about the "tee" layout, but it worked beautifully.)

He's a scientist. I'm an engineer. The people I have to satisfy are my customers.

No, I had better things to do than take predictable data, using fundamentally broken equipment.