refrigerator light

The pilot isn't wasteful--it's tiny for one thing, and for another the pilot/thermopile system is bulletproof. I'm not putting Chinese electronics in charge of preventing a gas explosion in my house.

Cheers

Phil Hobbs

I didn't say they were the worst, only overpriced junk. A Bosch hunk-o-junk is probably 3x that Kenmore hunk-o-junk but both are...

I looked hard at the Bosch (because of its name, more than anything) before deciding it was the overpriced junk that it was. In that range there are other, better, machines. The last one we bought (left it behind in our last house) was a Electrolux. We'll replace the one in this house with an Electrolux, soon (we bought the 'fridge when I moved in).

Don't the Chinese electronics have to be built the same way as any others, Failsafe?

I don't know that American designed/made is any guarantee. I was an expert witness a number of years ago analyzing a furnace igniter made by a _major_ U.S. manufacturer... AC line noise at specific phase angles would always turn on the gas, but not fire the igniter spark, and the flame sensor didn't notice... filled up a Chicago elementary school with gas... on a weekend, fortunately. ...Jim Thompson

I suspect that longer wash time is some regulation that required less water be used. We have a Kenmore that I think is around 70 minutes for a standard wash. Heh, I just found this;

"Between federal energy standards and the Energy Star program, dishwasher manufacturers face myriad restrictions?some mandatory, some voluntary?that require them to make dishwashers that use less water. and energy But when they do, something has to give and that something is time. Some of today's dishwashers take more than three hours to complete a normal cycle." From,

Mikek

I was in Paris once and found that the clothes washers take *much* longer than US models. I looked into it and found that they are much more energy and water efficient as well as doing a better job of rinsing the soap out. So I'm ok with that, especially in the dish washer. My current model runs during the day because it makes so much noise it will keep me from falling asleep if I run it at night. Quiet and efficient is good even if it takes hours at night when I don't care.

Millivolt is a guarantee.

Cheers

Phil Hobbs

Yep. Unfortunately the greeny nutcases are forcing manufacturers away from a continuous pilot. ...Jim Thompson

There's electrical redundancy in the electronic flame-rod detection method (which is very simple to begin with) and UL1998 safety-critical standards have to be met for approval by CGA/AGA/CSA/UL. I'm satisfied as to the safety. We have three electronic ignition modules for natural gas appliances (dryer, furnace and water heater). All are US-designed from major suppliers.

Couldn't one of those Mexican mechanical millivolt valves jam open?

"These incidents resulted in 5 deaths and 21 injuries."

have seen that happen. But its still far more reliable than consumer electronics.

NT

That would have cost them a few $$$

On Sat, 18 Jul 2015 04:05:50 -0700 (PDT) in sci.electronics.design, Phil Hobbs wrote,

Whatever heat it gives off goes to heating the water.

It might be quicker and less painful to just design and build a new DIY refer light and switch yourself.... Not exactly sure how you'd power it through the door and wall without drilling a new hole ? Maybe remove the light socket and use that hole and at the same time might find the problem.

boB K7IQ

enamelled copper wire

NT

it doesn't, that's the problem

NT

True, but only in the case of the water heater. Not true for clothes dryer, furnace or gas stove.

It mostly does, because it's right next to the main burner. An extra millimetre of insulation would more than pay back the heat loss.

Cheers

Phil Hobbs

It's also true for the furnace, which is hot water.

You don't need a pilot for a gas stove--you're standing over it whenever it gets lit, so there's no danger. Electric start is a win there.

I've never had a gas dryer or dishwasher, and electric ovens are much superior to gas, because they don't steam roasts, bread, and pastry to death.

However, none of the electric or electric-start appliances are ever used when nobody's home.

Cheers

Phil Hobbs

On Wed, 22 Jul 2015 11:36:01 -0400, Phil Hobbs Gave us:

I agree 100%. The heat it makes gets "added" to the tank.

Better, in fact.

The huge flame has *some* losses up the sides, but that small flame nearly *all* gets incorporated into the thermal mass.