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Re: Novice needs help with crazy project

>> >>

>> >John Fields wrote: >> >> >> >> >> >>> >> >>>> >> >>>> >> >>>> >> >>>> >> >>>> >> >>>>> Gurus, >> >>>>> I need your help... >> >>>>> I am an amateur triathlete and I'm getting ready for the start of the >> >>>>> triathlon season and I had this problem last year that I'm trying to >> >>>>> solve. >> >>>>> The problem is that during an open-water triathlon swim I need to skip >> >>>>> a stroke every so often to lift my head out of the water and site the >> >>>>> next turn buoy. I usually find myself off course by a few yards and >> >>>>> need to make corrections. This costs me time from being off course >> >>>>> and from skipping a stroke. So, I had this idea to take apart an old >> >>>>> digital camera or picture phone and mount the camera part to the back >> >>>>> of my head and attach the LCD part in front of my goggles. >> >>>>> Sound >> >>>> Will such a device be illegal in competition?- Hide quoted text - >> >>>> >> >>>> - Show quoted text - >> >>> Not yet! >> >> >> >> --- >> >> But, if it's patented, it'll be illegal for you to build one. >> >> >> >> >> >Illegal to sell it, or to profit by using it. But building one for fun? >> > Don't think so. >> >> --- >> It doesn't matter what you want to build it for, if you don't have >> the patent owner's permission it's infringement. > >Not true. It can legally be built to learn what is being taught in >the patent and even extend the patent.
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True.  Good catch.
Reply to
John Fields
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I've been learning from reading these points. But I believe you are taking a narrow view, here. In Europe, I gather any implementation of a patent that's just for personal use is completely exempt. So this may be a US-only thing.

Jon

Reply to
Jonathan Kirwan 

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If by a "narrow view" you mean according to US law, then you\'re
right.  I have no idea how infringement is defined in Europe, but my
personal view is that if it\'s not my invention and I copy it in
order to keep from having to pay the inventor his just due then I
have stolen from him what he deserved to earn and am nothing more
than a common thief.
Reply to
John Fields

Yes, that's what I meant.

In following up with your comments and references, I then found some suggestions about what I mentioned regarding the EU. I'm no expert on any of this, just vaguely interested.

And here we may need to disagree, though I'm not interested in debating it at length. The patent system wasn't created because of some fundamental underlying idea that 'theft of ideas is wrong' and a conclusion that inventors are under some attack by thieves demanding social remedy, but instead because there is a value for the social commons in encouraging inventors to disclose what novel things they discover that might otherwise be lost as an art when they die.

If the EU constructs a patent system, which is also based upon the commons idea, but designs it somewhat differently to serve different exacting design purposes, I see no problem with that, at all.

Jon

Reply to
Jonathan Kirwan 

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Agreed, and the reward for the inventor is in the form of a monopoly
which generally prohibits the copying of the invention for the
lifetime of the patent. 

I disagree slightly with your use of the word 'discovery' over
'invention', the implication being that the Venus de Milo was
already in the block of marble just waiting to be let out. ;)
Reply to
John Fields

I don't have a precise enough mental model of my own. But I'd imagine that patenting vs copyright might play in this example you gave, in some fashion. I don't imagine that the 'good for social commons' concept underlying patents needs to capture every conceivable idea that anyone might come up with -- just something likely to capture some of the more important inventions.

Isn't that just life, though, in a world where countries claim any sovereign power? It seems already the case that US patents will be treated differently, elsewhere. And in particular, if I'm reading correctly, in the case of personal use already as a matter of reality we now live with. I think that's just the world that an inventor anywhere must accept or reject on their own. We may lose some inventions because some folks are riled by the treatment of patents outside their own legal environment, or inside their own, but at least the existing systems capture _some_ useful inventions that might be otherwise lost. And that is all anyone can reasonably hope for.

I don't personally grant much commons value for inventions that would otherwise be invented repeatedly and frequently and with variations of little importance in difference, as who cares? We can just wait a little longer. I've no problem with that and wouldn't want to exchange much value back for getting it a few months or a year earlier (except in VERY RARE hypothetical circumstances, which I wouldn't bend over backwards to get.)

Jon

Reply to
Jonathan Kirwan

Unless the person is selling this thing who cares? I was under the impression someone could build something for personal use regardless of patents.

I certainly wouldn't let a patent stop my own innovation.

Reply to
James Sweet 

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Then you were under the wrong impression.
Reply to
John Fields

Which reminds me, a few years ago i remember a case where a company create a product that some one else had a patent on. The product was for a very small and specific market. The person that held the patent for this, heard about it after 2 years of it being used then the legal battle started. In the end. the patent holder didn't get anything other than a large bill from his lawyer. It appears that this person had patents on a lot of different things with no actual material(devices, paper work, documentation ect) etc.. In other words, they simply created patents on idea's only. It was there for decided in court that the patent was invalid, and soon after, the company got a patent for them self's on this product.

I remember a few years ago when i was in a small business of my own, I was told to package a sample of the product we had and mail it to my self but never open it. Do this once a year. and also get a legal patent on record. Because cases like this happen all the time.

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"I'm never wrong, once i thought i was, but was mistaken"
Real Programmers Do things like this.
http://webpages.charter.net/jamie_5
Reply to
Jamie

Bad advice. Write it up, get someone with understanding to read it and date and sign the report.

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Reply to
Homer J Simpson 

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Bad advice on top of bad advice, dumbfuck.

Read this:

http://www.uspto.gov/web/offices/pac/disdo.html
Reply to
John Fields

Late at night, by candle light, John Fields penned this immortal opus:

I've heard a sculptor describe his works just like that :)

- YD.

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Remove HAT if replying by mail.
Reply to
YD

just a thought how about using wireless. I guess the quality might not be good and will have some delay.

Reply to
sg

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