(was Plasma, Flybacks, RF Burns and Exploding Transisters)
After much excellent feedback, after much help from here, and after research, I can advise exactly what I need, and from where I need to get it;
INPUT - 12V DC, 30A
(SOMEBODY PUT SCHEMATIC HERE)
OUTPUT - 140kV, 15mA, AC@50mHz (or DC Pulsed @ same frequency)
The output WILL provide the results I need - I just don't know if it is possible to get from point A to point B
I'll just drop everything and get right on it.
50 millihertz? That's one cycle every 20 seconds.How about learning how to spell transistor first? The Trans Sisters were this act I saw in Brazil once. And if you don't know how to get there, how can you be so sure what's there?
Tanks fur ur helpp. Asshole.
Oh now I *really* want to help. I just quit my job so I can work on your stuff for free, full-time.
Sorry, that was rude. I apologize. How about just not replying to posts you feel are stupid, like mine?
But I enjoy it so. You're the guy who boasted of burning 600 2N3055s before stopping to think. I find that hilarious.
Can't get from A to B 12 volts times 30 amps is 360 watts
140 KV at .015 amps is 2,100 wattsYou can't get more power (watts) out than you put in, or you can't put in 1/2 horse power and get out 3 hp.
50 MHZ would be another problem - takes too many very expensive transistors to make it directly and you'd waste even more power by adding a voodoo conversion stage or two to get the frequency up.----== Posted via Newsfeeds.Com - Unlimited-Unrestricted-Secure Usenet News==----
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Damn - I so much wanted to throw in some voodoo...
Very helpful, thanks. As stated earlier, this is for a plasma assited catalyst in an exhaust. I was HOPING to get away with using the existing high-output alternator, but obviously no. I will add a piggyback generator to the driveline to have more energy to start with, and confirm the freq requirements.
Not even. You're completely dreaming there. Suppose you just have 10pF parasitics, which is probably underestimated. At 50MHz that's 318 ohm impedance and with 140kV that's a healthy 440A circulating current. Arghhh...
-- Thanks, Fred.
"600 2N3055s" = Sarcasm.
Feeble attempt at humor, making fun of myself.
Humor. Try to get some.
If it makes you feel better, I only exploded 300.
The cold, hard reality. If you can't find a neon sign power supply, or build it yourself you probably won't get what you want.
Schematic? That is less of a problem (if 50 MHZ is a typo). But you still wouldn't be able to build it. What is your electronics experience? 2N3055's kind of suggests you haven't done a lot of this.
This type of engineering is highly specialized and solving the physical problems is often more of a challenge than the theory. For instance - you (or someone) can get out a calculator and find what is necessary in the matter of semiconductors and design a circuit around them, but that is only a small part of the problem
- then you have to, build it, work the kinks out, get the equipment to a size that is reasonable and get the power to the point of use (high voltage engineering - lots of ceramic insulators, tubing or bus bars to carry the frequency, machining to avoid discharge points en route, oil filled enclosures, etc..) Before one was finished you'd probably have a few things involved that are patentable.
This is fascinating stuff and a lot of us tinker with it out of interest and satisfaction - but how do you interest someone in doing it for you short of hiring a good HV engineer and paying big bucks?
Look at what you are asking - at 50 MHZ ham radio operators don't get to run 2,000 watts, so you won't find a lot of schematics on the web for 50 MHZ 2 KW circuits. If you did find it or cobble it together you'd probably have to meet some stringent guidelines so you didn't radiate any of that power (police, fire, rescue use those frequencies, along with channel 2 on TV, so that means containing the power in a shielded enclosure with stipulations on who can work on it and under what circumstances - if you do it commercially)
Richard Hull is a tinkerer who works with very high power high voltage high frequency stuff - he's approachable and will probably answer mail but he's working on his own fusion reactor at the moment. (and I lost his email address - don't tell him I sent you)
Terry Fritz - maintains the tesla coil forum and might know someone who can do what you want. He has a web page
Posting your question on that forum would be a good move.
J Couture is another name from my TC days - don't know what he does these days.
Some guy down in Brazil was good for debunking "can it be done sorts of questions" I think his name is Antonio Carlos M. de Queiroz but it has been awhile.
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A wave guide 7 feet in diameter? Probably lucky to get 20% efficiency at that freq so the alternator would consume something like 16 horsepower.
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You guys show why I like newsgroups.
You all have the experience. To those with no experience (me) what you do appears as magic.
Understand my background - I know what this thing needs to do, I am just trying to see if it is possible to get there. No sense going further if it is not even possible to get there.
Pardon my writing, also. I have the most basic knowledge (if that) of electronics. However, if you threw a bunch of parts of electronics at me, I could probably tell you what they do, but not what they are - My schooled vocabulary on the particulars is not there.
Example - I can build / rebuild any make, model or size of internal combustian engine on the planet. I am able to make one from scratch, if need be. I have done so, in fact. However, if you asked me to give the correct name to all the parts, most I'd be wrong with. Ask me what tolerance between the parts, I can do it easily, but I am unable to tell you why. In making / rebuilding the engine, all of the machine tools I can use very well. But I couldn't tell you what the NAME of the tool was if you held a gun to my head. And I can do this with my eyes closed, if you so wanted. But I do not have the ability to EXPLAIN it. Maybe that is my problem in explaining it here.
Who the hell knew there was a difference between mHz and MHz. Well, I take that back, you all do. I don't.
Is 50,000 kHz the same as 50 mHz? See, I thought it was. And this is how I learn. Being busted on because I don't know how to spell transister? That bothers me not at all - at my age I learn however I can. Transister, rectalfier, catastrophic converter, complacenter, etc.
I understand physics, understand coservation of energy, know I can't get something for nothing.
See all that pretty purple stuff in a plasma corona? I need to get gobs of that stuff into the center of an exhaust pipe / exhaust stream which is pushing thru the spent exhaust from a 3.8 litre diesel engine running at 3200rpm max, using power supplies already existing (or easily/cheaply added to) a small truck, for the purpose of NOx reduction via catalyst. Plasma is to create free radicals of N and O. Exhaust has far too much O2, which breaks easier than N2. Pre-Corona injection of hydrocarbons at 3% engine fuel intake to assist.
That is how my head words it.
We'll assume you meant Mega and not millihertz.
The big problem I see is your input power is 12*30 = 360 Watts
However, your output power is 140K * .015 = 2100 Watts
Im not sure how you can be so sure it WILL provide the results, as people have pointed out you input power is insuficient so I suggest you try it first from a mains power and see if it realy needs all that power, also im not sure you have got the freq right, as people have pointed out also but still 50Mhz or 50mhz is not making an awful lot of sense to me (or dc pulse at same frequency), either would be too dificult IMO, maybe 50khz ? now that would be relativly easy. ... a collection of big fets in an H bridge from a decent starting voltage say 100v - 200v, a driver wich operates to keep the switching at the transformer resonant frequency to avoid problems with intra winding capacitance, A very hefty ferrite transformer tons of insulation ah now that might be a problem, ... Im not sure if techniques used at 25kv dc can be scaled upto 140kv ac
But certainly if you had 140kv at 15MA (oops make that mA) at 50khz it oughta at least do something exciting !
Colin =^.^=
Jeez you left out divariable veble-versa, and raftergrabbersnatcher
Seriously Small m is usually used for milli and large M for mega - since there ain't no such thing as milli cycles (most people start saying unit of time per cycle like 6 seconds per cycle)
Milli means divide by 1,000 as an auto person you know that. Mega means multiply by a million, or ten to the 6th. K means Kilo or times a thousand, ten to the 3d
Gobs of corona is 100 KHZ (plus 600, minus 50 KHZ tolerance) at 50 to
150 KVolts and 200+ watts of power - that's what I consider gobs of corona in a 5" diameter pipe3 feet long.The only off the shelf commercial device for reasonable money that I know of is a neon sign power supply - these days they make high frequency supplies - but they only go to about 12 KV and that ain't gobs of corona any more - at least not with air at room temperature.
The Tesla coil or some similar device is tailor made to meet the corona specifications - but there's only a few off the shelf tesla coils made in the US and they are small demonstration devices or used for leak detection in glass ware.
To keep the size reasonable, if I were building it, I'd start with the leak detection design or X-ray design coil. Air core coil with a layered winding of ~1" in width with a 2" margin to either side and insulated between windings with a sandwich layer of paper and polypropylene or Teflon sheet (paper to absorb oil, plastic for its dielectric strength and low dissipation factor). The coil would sit in a 4" diameter cylinder 6" long with an external primary winding. The inside coil would be in dielectric oil and the high voltage carried out on a low loss silicone insulated high tension wire.
It would take me some time too - since there would be kinks and problems to solve along the way.
Cost ~$300 to $1000 in parts to get a working build able prototype. Time - priceless. 1 -3 months for the coil assembly the rest would depend on drive circuit - I would start with an already published push-pull mosfet exciter and just beef up the power - that would probably entail a small foray into DC/DC converters to get the 100 volts or so to push into the mosfets but that last is easy.
If I were just some guy with an automobile and wanted to see about lowering emissions I'd buy the leak detector tesla coil and inject some corona into the exhaust stream before the converter and then measure the emissions - on and off. If that really made a difference I'd know I was on to something - kiss the wife put my feet up and dream of the millions of dollars this would make me. Tesla coil for leak detection ~$150. Knowledge gained, priceless.
Defending or acquiring a patent - forget about it.
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Good stuff, all. This is not a "save the world" invention, don't care about a patent, don't have plans on getting rich etc. In fact, I searched the planet hoping someone sold such a thing. They don't.
This Technology has been pretty thoroughly tested by Los Alamos, etc.
I sell diesel trucks that I import. In 2007, emissions regulations change. To hit those emissions, there are only a handful of companies that offer the correct catalyst systems, which include Oxy-catalyst, Particulate matter filter & catalyst, and Urea injection for NOx.
I can buy those systems off the shelf for my trucks. For $9,000 each.
That is Nine, zero, zero, zero - Nine Thousand Dollars. World of difference between gasoline and diesel catalysts, obviously.
See why I am into doing this now? If I could build these for $1000 each, I'd be tickled
Necessity is truly the mother of invention.
How many units are we talking about ? and how expensive are the trucks ?
Theres probably a whole host of potential problems if you start selling them, wich can work out very expensive.
Colin =^.^=
Hundreds of units, cheap trucks (under $20k)
And it has to work out lesst that nine grand a unit, I'm sure
If that were DC, it sounds like an industrial X-ray tube power supply. Last time I checked when I worked in NDT, those things fit snugly on the bed of a pickup truck. Just the sort of thing consumers will eagerly want on their car.
That's why I had to laugh at the guy, he's clearly operating several removes away from my plane of reality.
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