progress in operating systems

John Larkin wrote in news: snipped-for-privacy@4ax.com:

there was an article on Fox News online the other day about how Linux is getting more popular and easier to install,and that there's more SW developed for it now.

When I bought my new ThinkPad (about a month ago), it was offered WITH XP.

...Jim Thompson

-- | James E.Thompson, P.E. | mens | | Analog Innovations, Inc. | et | | Analog/Mixed-Signal ASIC's and Discrete Systems | manus | | Phoenix, Arizona Voice:(480)460-2350 | | | E-mail Address at Website Fax:(480)460-2142 | Brass Rat | |

And when I buy a new desktop this week it will either have XP on it or I will not buy it. IOW it needs to come pre-downgraded.

What really blew my mind: One company (might be Dell) offers "crud removal service" on some machines. You can have Outlook and other non-essentials removed. For a fee of two bucks a pop! Now that's a new business model, offer something with lots of gizmos and then when customers don't want the gizmos charge them for removal. Makes me somewhat grumpy but I'll probably still buy there, cause I need XP.

Jim Thomps>When I bought my new ThinkPad (about a month ago),

Dell's customers demanded this (pre-installed) ~2 months ago.

The other day I saw a recommendation by a Belgian think tank that said the EU should mandate unbundling of Windoze by computer hardware vendors.

Imagine seeing a menu with *gasp* choices and the price of each OS beside it.

Now imagine that Ubuntu or OpenSuSE or OpenBSD was listed and beside it was a price of 0.00. It would sure make folks think after seeing the price beside Redmond's stuff.

You'll get a kick out of this: "Time-to-usefulness on first boot with *pre-installed* Windoze" aka "Look at all that crapware"

What's really happening is that all those crapware providers pay Dell (or whoever) to put that software on machines, so they're recovering that "lost revenue" from your pocket if you aren't interested in it.

$2 sounds about right for how much Dell might get paid to place crapware on the machines... it definitely wouldn't pay for anyone's time to actually

Yeah but, the Redmond stuff actually runs a lot of software that I need while the others don't. Until someone comes up with an OS that can run all or at least nearly all Windows programs nothing earth shattering is going to happen. Except that Vista seems to have been a flash in the pan from a biz POV. Downgrade packages must surely be a first for MS, and I guess someone up there is being read the riot act right now. I can almost hear the hollering.

Old news, and no, despite what the "article"states, MS was not "quiet" about it.

Yes, I guess that $350 for the PC is a subsidized price, like some Internet providers where you must accept nag screens and ads. I'd pay them the six Dollars but on the Vostro they don't offer that. Oh well.

What irks me a bit it that in the XP home versus professional comparison they kind of hint that pro can network and home can't. That isn't true, the lab PC does this just fine on XP home.

I'm wondering whether I can cram both my 3-1/2 and 5-1/4 drives in there or have to copy all the legacy files. That would not be cool if I had to.

Dell has had an "open source desktop" line for some time. See:

Also with FreeDOS:

and Ubuntu Linux:

My guess(tm) is about $80 less without Windoze. It's really difficult to do a side by side price and feature comparison.

$870 Hahahaha

My PS3 has Ubuntu on it, is ten times faster, and was nearly $300 less! (after the Kbd and mouse purchase).

Installing Linux is more than half the fun!

I would never pay for it pre-installed.

Well, you picked the most expensive model, which includes a 20" LCD monitor. Subtract $240 if you don't want the monitor.

Yep. I can just see corporate America using Playstations as workstations. Mouse? I thought you used a joystick.

If it were easy, it would be no fun. Everyone needs a challenge to keep them off the streets and out of trouble.

There are other Dell models listed that have no operating system pre-installed. Think of it as ala-carte computing for the GUM (great unwashed masses).

Joerg wrote:

I thought someone would mention that. Now imagine that Windoze wasn't FORCED on everyone. How many of those apps would get ported to other platforms post haste?

Sure about that? Actually tried those apps under WINE? Mike Engelhardt is a shining example of a developer who MAKES SURE his app (LTspice) **will**.

The *big* aspect of the push toward Open Document Format is IT DOESN'T MATTER WHICH APP YOU USE--NOR WHICH OS.

THAT is why the EU is so important. They aren't bending over for M$'s lock-in. Their mandate says that M$ must open its protocols. Since Redmond has (not unexpectedly) been dragging its feet, maybe it's time for some new thinking on this.

The EU could invert the USA's attitute toward Redmond and adopt a not-invented-here-based stance and just bar them from the market for non-compliance. That would sure stir things up.

Here's another less extreme example of NewThink: When Google "ported" the Windoze-only app Picasa to Linux, they contracted with CodeWeavers for over 200 additions to WINE. If more developers/vendors were Like Mike(tm), and followed Google's lead for the extreme cases, things would get a lot more *universal* in a VERY short time.

Still $130 more. My 32" 720p will do just fine, thanks.

Not when the platform is being used as a PC. Are you being obtuse on purpose or is this an IQ thing? Workstations? Most of the folks at my work that are not doing real engineering on their machines merely use them (PCs) for time card entry functions. Office applications are included with Ubuntu, and there are plenty of CAD apps, and other scientific app as well. I run OrCad and Tango PCB in a DosBox window in my PS3 Ubuntu install. There are plenty of native Linux EDA apps in the channel as well.

It IS easy. The fun part here is the ins and outs of the new platform (Cell BE), and getting HD content (BluRay and HD DVD) to work.

I can do the challenge, and be on the streets and in trouble if that happens to be my desire. I can kick the pants off any one of the suckers in these groups in billiards any day of the week, even after becoming mildly or fully inebriated on beer.

So, what does the Ubuntu inclusion add up to then? Free money for Dell. Since Ubuntu prides itself on being free, and is the most popular these days, I can see why Dell chose it, but if they are charging for it, they are no different than a damned lawyer that charges a client for a simple fax. The bastards!

Hell no... I am having lots of fun here. 9 cores rule!

F*ck wine. There are a lot of emus in the channel now that are far better.

You're an idiot when you do crap like this.

See 09/17 CRN article "Hasta La Vista". An interpretation might go "Vista is the best OS since CP/M; 75% of our business is *downgrading* Vista to XP".

Actually a goodly percentage ot the downgrade requests are for Linux as Vista pissed off the customer.

Actually, I think you make s*it up every chance you get.