Your problems are nearly always so uniquely constrained that most people don't even understand why you have the restrictions you do much less share those restrictions. I would just use a couple or three standard outlet strips and unplug any pack I didn't want plugged in. Your needs are different from most as shown by the lack of a ready solution.
-- Rick
I think I'm going to try offloading the whole problem to a colleague. Or, an intern. Give someone a way to "chalk off" an "ob" (hmmm... can't recall the name of that story...)
I have a 1G (metal) box like that. Each side can be (individually) removed. But, it's *deep* -- like 2.5 inches (I also have some deeper ones that I've used for CATV/POTS/CAT5 drops -- more internal volume to stuff the service loops you want in each of those cables).
Here, many of the "licensed electricians" are the idiots! I can't tell you how many times I've encountered buried boxes, live wires dangling inside walls, ROMEX stapled to the exterior of a building, miswired switches and outlets, splices, etc. All done by "licensed professionals"! :-/
The problem comes from "small jobs" where they don't want to be bothered calling in an inspector (because it easily doubles or triples the time required!).
Mount it above the back of the bench so the wall warts are behind it and the switches face the front.. switch-> '[=[]
Ha! You think I've got that much "spare room" on the top surface of the benches?? :> I'd be forever moving things out of the way so I could reach the switches hiding behind stuff!
If I put it *under* the bench[1], then I have to stoop down and reach back 32-36"... *behind* the stuff fastened to the underside of the benches! (more power strips, keyboard drawers, network switches, etc.)
[I have a lot of shi^H^H^H wonderful stuff jammed into a very small space!]The right solution is as I've described: shallow outlet strip with wall facing outlets, heaven-facing switches.
I'll stop by metal shop next week and see if I can find some nice U-channel and have a buddy or an intern make some for me. Relatively easy to "get it right" assuming I can find appropriate stock. (I know they have some diamond-plate U-channel but it's probably too big/heavy for what I need).
May also try building supply store and see if I can find a door frame (the sort used for a commercial establishment framed with glass windows, etc. -- brushed aluminum)
[1] Only works for those things that are benches and not "cabinets".
Exactly. Loew's offers something similar (different brand). I suspect all of them are made by X1up. I bought one (local store, no shipping, had a chance to superficially examine it, etc.). I figured I could come up with a way to "cut off" an outlet or two from one end (farthest from power cord) and hack together some sort of "endcap" (assuming I couldn't reshape the metal cover to mimic its original form... only shorter) to disguise my sins...
The back comes off with a few sheet-metal screws tapped into both sides. Mounting ears are part of the back *and* the front covers (which wraps around at the ends to form the endcaps and then flare out into the mounting tabs -- which overlap the back mounting tabs and, as such, help hold the front to the back while mounted/supported)
It's relatively light weight material so easy to drill -- a pilot and a tapered reamer would make quick work of creating mounting holes for toggle switches.
*But*, it's not N discrete outlets (N=9 or 12) "wired together" with individual conductors. Instead of N pieces of molded plastic with copper inserts for the outlet's contacts, it is a *long* piece of molded plastic that spans *3* outlets! Into this are three LONG pieces of (bare) copper that form the contacts for each of the outlets *and* connect to the adjacent outlets.So, there's no real empty space between outlets (e.g., for the switches) because the molded plastic assembly fills that gap.
And, trying to insert individual switches means cutting one of those long conductors (to isolate each switch from its neighbors). Then, soldering to the conductor *and* all the way back to the initial feed point for that conductor (the main power switch) *or* the "previous upstream switch". I.e., *9* individual wires snaking around this molded plastic assembly.
It was just too much of a kludge when contrasted with how you would fabricate such a thing from individual outlets! Got to be one hell of a markup in the thing as there's nothing to it! :<
I have some nice, *round* single outlets with metal mounting ears (i.e., use a pair of screws to fasten the outlet's ears to the UNDERSIDE of a metal chassis punched with round holes). This would allow the outlets to be wired before installation and serviced
*after* wired (snap in outlets are tedious to service while connected to their neighbors)They are very shallow -- just long enough for the plug's blades. And, have screw terminals for the electrical contacts. You don't have to solder/unsolder to install/service/remove them! (which ends up melting lots of insulation on the heavier gauge wire used in this sort of place)
I'll find a piece of U-channel to mount them in and see what I can come up with to seal the back/ends. Then, have an intern spend a few hours assembling 8 or 10 of them. Rescue some nice, heavy power cords off some discarded UPS's... (those are *never* in short supply! :> ). I'm sure I've got a bunch of miniature toggles -- even with a wide assortment of bat covers! (in case anyone wants to *look* behind the benches to appraise my handiwork)
The other practical approach would be to just mount a larger 5V/12V lab supply and run "switched DC" directly to each of the powered devices... eliminate all of the wall warts entirely. But, sorting out which "outlet" has which *voltage* might be tedious. And, you *know* there would be *something* that would need, e.g., 48VDC...
Don, not sure if you saw this so just in case I'm reposting it. Seems to me these are what you want, and much cheaper than building.
Sorry, when I did my power strip I had no problem finding normal and 90 deg outlets for the raceway, but a quick browse at allied and mcmaster had no luck and I don't remember what brand I was using. I did find a few power strips with 90 deg outlets and individual switches on ebay that might work for you (search for "power strip individually switched"). Price range $15 to 45. Best hits:
This is by Rosewill so if you don't like ebay I'm sure newegg or amazon has them:
Another Rosewill, with surge protection:
Longer, metal, with more room between outlets:
The prewired wiremold outlet strips have the outlets going in the wrong orientation. I.e., they (and most other suppliers) arrange them like:
| | .
| | .
| | .
Whereas I want
_ _.
_ _.
The snap-in outlets are rectangular so you can't just rotate them and have them still fit in the channel.
If you use the large wiremold Jboxes, then you effectively end up fastening them end to end (or side to side) owing to their overall dimensions (36" for 12 outlets means you really need to hug the 3" figure)
Lastly, you're fighting the Jbox depth. "Outlet strips" tend to be much shallower than Jboxes -- hence the small "barely legal" switch Jbox that I referenced before. They're barely large enough to wire with 14AWG and probably not legal for 12AWG... that's how
*tight* they are! (1.5x2x4=12 cu in)E.g., for a SPST switch: yoke = 2 units clamp=1 unit three conductors=3 units box ground=0 units 6 units @ 2 cu in = 12 cu in
If it was a duplex outlet and the conductors ran *through* the box (to the next duplex outlet):
yoke = 2 units clamp=1 unit two sets of three conductors=6 units box ground=0 units 9 units @ 2 cu in = 18 cu in (FAIL)
Well, I could always resort to the Furman device for $10/outlet. :<
It's just hard to believe these things aren't in greater demand. Esp with the prevalence of wall warts, nowadays!
----- Regards, Carl Ijames
How about Carlon 5070 or 5072 boxes? Glue them together, or use screws through the back to a piece of plywood or metal. If you want metal, look at the extrusions used for a 'Florida Room'. They come in several useful shapes.
-- Anyone wanting to run for any political office in the US should have to have a DD214, and a honorable discharge.
Have you considered eliminating the multitude of wall warts and replacing them with a central power supply and new cords? Something like this: I have something similar here running most of my ham radio stuff. By convention, most ham radio accessories run on 12VDC (nominal) power making a common power supply easy. (Actually, most will run on anything from 11.5VDC to about 15VDC). I also have something similar for my music synthesizer rack, which ran on a mix of 9VAC and 12VAC. Adding a switch in series with the center pin should be easy enough.
-- Jeff Liebermann jeffl@cruzio.com 150 Felker St #D http://www.LearnByDestroying.com Santa Cruz CA 95060 http://802.11junk.com Skype: JeffLiebermann AE6KS 831-336-2558
Yes, I considered that.
There are some obvious problems: e.g., the wall warts don't all produce the same voltage or voltages (more common with "bricks" than wall warts). So, you'd need a "reliable" way of ensuring the right voltage "tap" is delivered to each device -- 5V, 9V, 12V, 24V, 48V, etc. (unless you *fix* each device in a particular location and never intend to move it or it's "power tap")
Also, some devices appear to not take kindly to having the DC supply abruptly applied/interrupted -- so an inline switch would be a simple solution but, potentially, harmful one. (i.e., I unplug wall warts from the outlet instead of unplugging them from the
*device*) [IIRC, this was discussed some time ago... Joerg?]
Yes, there is: AC or DC Regulated or unregulated Different voltages Different polarities Each can be accommodated with ever increasing circuit complexity. Assuming you're not designing a product for sale, some manner of power supply could be contrived that would accommodate the most common voltages. For most devices, that seems to be: 5VDC negative ground regulated 12VDC negative ground regulated For music racks, it would be: 9VAC unregulated 12VAC unregulated There is also the now ubiquitous Mini-USB and Micro-USB charger plugs which can be accommodated with a USB power jack and various resistor networks to convince the phone that's suppose to accept the charger.
The difficult part is determining if the device requires regulated power from the wall wart, or can tolerate a range of voltages from an unregulated source. I tested a few devices, such as various Linksys WRT54G routers, and found that except for v1.0, they will all run on anything from about 4VDC to 18VDC (as limited by the electrolytic capacitors). With a schematic, it's easy to make this determination. These days, I just put various resistive loads on the wall wart and check if it's regulated (and if so, how badly regulated).
I think the short list of outputs would accommodate most of your devices. Looking at my collection of about 20 operating wall warts, I find a few oddities (7.5VDC Netgear switch), 3.3VDC (Buffalo router), and 12VDC positive ground (frequency counter). I have very few 12V wall warts in the rack because they all are powered by a 12V bus. (Note: I'm not counting 19VDC laptop chargers).
While a central power supply would not replace all your chargers and power supplies, I suspect it would greatly reduce the proliferation and AC power jack consumption.
I haven't seen this problem. I have several power strips stuffed full of wall warts that I use to charge cell phones, laptops, etc used to reduce "phantom loads". When not in use, I just turn off the power strip or let an AC timer do it. I also have a switched power strip running the entertainment rack, which is operated in a similar manner. Here the devices have warnings in the manual not to "pull the plug". Specifically, Roku 2 XS, and several DVR/receiver combinations warn against "pulling the plug". The worst I've seen over the years is a trashed recording, and having to manually reboot a DirecTV DVR when it failed to boot correctly. Even with the power going on/off erratically during the winter storms, I don't seem much of a problem.
However, if it is a problem, methinks it might better be solved with a BFC (big fat capacitor) installed across the device DC power line (either on the internal power bus or directly onto the power jack. I've fixed a few routers and switches by adding such capacitors that were previously prone to hanging on power glitches. That's also another advantage to my centralized 12V power system, which at one time ran off a battery and trickle charger, and is therefore unaffected by AC power glitches and dropouts. I also have a 12V solar power battery charger system, which only works during the summer. Oh well.
Sorry but I missed that. I can't read 300+ articles per day in sci.electronic.design.
-- Jeff Liebermann jeffl@cruzio.com 150 Felker St #D http://www.LearnByDestroying.com Santa Cruz CA 95060 http://802.11junk.com Skype: JeffLiebermann AE6KS 831-336-2558
There are track lighting outlet adapters too, grounded and fairly cheap, he can space them anyway he wants:
...some people are helpless.
The above list was an inventory of the wall warts that I currently have in use on these benches. That was enough to discourage me from pursuing this sort of approach -- especially as there is nothing from preventing a user from plugging wall wart A into device B (having different power requirements).
Presently, I rely on labels that I affix to each wall wart and "discipline" to ensure the right wall wart remains connected to its proper device. I've smoked a few devices in the past by getting sloppy... :<
Most of the devices I have expect regulated supplies. E.g., external disk drive may synthesize it's internal 3.3 or 5V supply from the 12V supplied, but the drive itself wants to see that 12V also (not 13 or 10).
Laptops aren't a concern. They are portable -- the kit that I am trying to address I intend to leave in place indefinitely (though not permanently). Hence, wanting to get all of the wall warts (and the outlets to which they connect) out of the way -- so the remaining outlets are accessible to "regular devices".
I can shut down the entire strips from the UPS's from which they are powered. Shutting down individual outlets is useful for groups of, e.g., USB devices: I can leave them all connected to their respective hubs/machines and effectively plug/unplug them by applying/removing power. So, I can put four external disks on an SBC and elect to power up the SBC and *just* this disc -- instead of all four of them. Or, leave a scanner connected but keep it offline just by removing power to its wall wart.
Exactly. You are "unplugging the wall wart" from the AC line -- not leaving the wall wart powered and "dumping the load". So, a switch in the AC line mimics unplugging the wall wart whereas a switch in the DC output of a common power supply would mimic unplugging the *load* from the wall wart. Likewise, reapplying power "instantaneously" as the (DC) switch closes.
This was quite a while ago. I'd have to search for the thread/reference. It's just a "nota bene" that's stuck in my head. The sort of thing that, even if incorrect, "can't (practically) hurt"!
Among other reasons, it gives me an incentive to avoid devices with external (detachable) power supplies. So, I try to find solutions where the power supply is housed within the device and a regular line cord comes out the back :> OTOH, internal power supply craps out and it's a bit of effort to find one that has similar ratings, form factor, mounting holes, etc. Wall warts make this problem go away! :-/
Line cords are also a lot easier to connect to generic outlet strips!
I'll see what my buddy comes up with for an enclosure. Just dreading the overkill that will result -- last time I wanted a little aluminum box folded up on the brake, it came back with welded corners, iridited, PEM nuts for the cover plate, etc. I'd have been satisfied with anything more than a "cardoard box"!! :-/
As my friends/family keep telling me, "You can't always be doing favors without letting others do things for you -- it makes *them* feel good when they can reciprocate!"
Go figure...
That could work! They're wider than 1G metal boxes so getting adequate spacing (without having to insert a 1" piece of EMT between adjacent boxes. But, still pretty deep (almost 2"). Plastic is always a win for "hand machining"
Thanks, I'll look at them on my next HD/Loew's pilgrimmage. Draft angle might be a bother -- but, arrange them on a flat worksurface, glue together (letting the glue flow to fill the tapered gap in the "non-parallel" adjacent sides). Then, move them into place "for real".
I'm still holding out hope for a "finished" (not counting the wiring) solution from my colleague. Though I've already thought of three or four other places I would like something similar (but different physical size and shape) and wouldn't be happy imposing for yet another favor... especially one so *similar*!
Looks like I'll be able to get a few more things off the list this holiday season! Yippee -- not a total waste! :>
Don't you already have that problem? Many wall warts use the same connector with different voltages.
So how does this preclude the use of central power supply?
I use the warmth criteria to tell if I need to worry about the vampire power of a device. If I can't feel the warmth it is not using enough power for me to even waste my time worrying about. If it is warm, but not significantly warm, I will unplug it if I don't use it every day. Only if it feels rather warm will I unplug something that gets used daily or the like. Nightlights are 7W, cost $10 a year to run 24/7 and are rather hot if you touch them. Anything that is not nearly as hot is significantly below that power and so I don't need to worry about.
These days wall warts are becoming the defacto standard because they push all the high voltage safety concerns into the small module. Expect to see more of them rather than less. But the up side is they are becoming more efficient and smaller. Most of the ones I have are thin things that come off the side of the socket, very different from what you seem to be assuming.
Laptops seem to go with the hybrid approach, rug warts.
-- Rick
One of my customers has an HP desktop with an external laptop style power supply. It's a 90 watt, 19VDC laptop power supply. Works fine, with the only problem being kicking the power supply, which unplugs the non-locking power jack on the back of the PC. It's been about 2 years and I expected to see more such "laptops" inside a PC case, but so far, it's the only one I've found.
-- Jeff Liebermann jeffl@cruzio.com 150 Felker St #D http://www.LearnByDestroying.com Santa Cruz CA 95060 http://802.11junk.com Skype: JeffLiebermann AE6KS 831-336-2558
My wife has one that is quite similar. I don't know why that didn't happen more - it makes perfect sense to me.
-- Les Cargill
The external PSU has no forced air cooling so is limited in the total power... or so I say. I just realized that my laptop power supply is
135 Watts! Still, it is not uncommon for desktop units to use 200 Watts and up. High end CPUs draw 100 Watts alone. I think they use the external PSU on small desktop units because it reduces the size even further.What sort of power connector do they use between the PSU and the PC? That seems to vary all over the map on laptops. I expect they use the same ones on their desktops as they do on the laptops and so it varies all over the map.
-- Rick
Right.
Sure. I think this 'un is a 350 watter. I don't use near that. Hers supports a second SATA drive.
It is not a high end CPU. We actually bought it because of the weight.
I don't recall - it's some sort of pigtail. The interior is very clean, spartan. It's just wires going to peripheral connectors on the outside and the SATA plus power for the drives.
The point being that they already have the parts designed and in the flow - why not use them?
-- Les Cargill
Intel NUC, and the gigbyte Brix etc also use external DC supplies.
-- umop apisdn
Ditto. It was also used in the Dell SX260 and SX280 USFF machines. However, it wasn't a small laptop power supply. It was a monstrous brick-like abomination with a thick umbilical cord. Oddly, both model power supplies put out 12.0VDC. However, the 12.0V regulation was in the power supply, not in the desktop, so I couldn't power the machine with automotive 12V power.
-- Jeff Liebermann jeffl@cruzio.com 150 Felker St #D http://www.LearnByDestroying.com Santa Cruz CA 95060 http://802.11junk.com Skype: JeffLiebermann AE6KS 831-336-2558
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