Yeah, I did a design for a large company before reading their full T&C. Ok, they got me on the development. It included things like a requirement on me to carry $3 mil of liability insurance.
Before I sold them any boards they had to accept *my* T&C. In fact they do their manufacturing through a large contract outfit. THEY had to accept my T&C before I sell to them as well. Every PO they send has their T&C included so I require a specific acceptance of my T&C.
-- Rick
We refuse to sign an indemnification. Our gear could go into a system that inspires a billion-dollar lawsuit, and I sure don't want to pay A******'s or A***'s full penalties and legal fees.
But as the purchaser of a consumer product, I'd ignore the Garmin thing.
-- John Larkin Highland Technology, Inc jlarkin att highlandtechnology dott com http://www.highlandtechnology.com
I always read a customer's contract before I sign, and I don't hesitate to rework bits that I don't like. If the customer doesn't want to sign a contract that I find reasonable -- too bad for them.
(Particularly because I instructed my lawyer, when we came up with my standard contract, that I wanted him to make sure he could enthusiastically recommend that I sign either side. And, in fact, I've subcontracted a few jobs to other people, and _have_ signed it on the left, happily.)
-- Tim Wescott Wescott Design Services http://www.wescottdesign.com
I'm just reading what it says. It isn't limited to my actions, only that it be related to my use of the GPS however remote. Yeah, lawyer talk. But lawyers are not people to be ignored. I can do nothing wrong and lose all of my money to Garmin because one of their lawyers sees a way to recover some losses and look good in the eyes of his boss.
Not really related, but to show how crazy legal stuff can get, I just spoke with a friend I hadn't heard from in a couple of years. He had been in a car accident (not his fault) and was very seriously injured. He said in Virginia your recovery for pain and suffering is limited to twice your medical expenses. Somehow even with the extensive medical cost he ended up with no actual out of pocket expenses, so no recovery at all for pain and suffering. I had trouble hearing on the cell phone but I heard him say his arm now has titanium and someone else's Achilles tendon. He is just now getting back to normal life after two years. "Right" and "fair" have nothing to do with the legal system and things like lawyer speak shouldn't be ignored.
-- Rick
When I see T&C now I search on "indemnify" first. FPGA development tools actually include language to indemnify the user against actions by competing tool vendors for stuff like copyright or patent infringement by the tools you are using. I was very surprised.
-- Rick
Too much to fully copy, but here are key parts...
"You agree to indemnify, defend and hold Garmin... [many others] free and harmless from any liability, loss, injury, demand, action, cost expense or claim of any kind... arising out of or in connection with any use or possession by you of the Garmin products."
Pretty broad. Doesn't even require you to be driving at the time. If someone sits on my GPS and sues Garmin for having it removed from their rear, it comes back to me. If someone breaks into my car, steals the unit and uses it to rob a bank, that could be considered "arising out of" my "possession".
-- Rick
Bullshit
That's that umbrella policies are for. You make sure you have enough insurance company money at stake that they provide a good attorney. The other strategy is to be bankrupt so you're judgment proof.
...and if you don't defend them, Garmin is going to sue you?
That is still not of any significance. The hazard of a nuke plant is not the normal day to day operation, it is when things don't go right.
-- Rick
Irrelevant. My car is totally safe as long as it runs on the road and no one hits it with their car. It is when something goes wrong that is the problem.
-- Rick
Bullshit. Check the data. You will have to wade through about 500 tonnes of bullshit to get to it though.
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Nope, Jim it is actual fact for a non-scrubbed coal fired plant. There is a trace amount of radioactinides in coal. The total emissions from the coal fired plant are over a thousand times higher that permissible for a nuclear plant. Surprized me when i first heard about it as well.
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Incorrect. Study the trace radioactive emissions of coal fired power plants. The amounts of spewed from coal plants far exceeds that allowed for nuclear plants.
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You have obviously not seen some of the jugheaded judgments i have seen fought clear through the supreme court.
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Not really. The intent is OK but the actual language makes you liable if some third party uses another Garmin to attempt a getaway from a bank robbery. Yes, the abuse of indemnification language is that bad for many products, like power saws, drills, sanders and more. Read the paperwork that comes with your nest power tool purchase.
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Fukushima was not a catastrophe - the PR mess surrounding it was the catastrophe. I believe the stress resulting from panicking authorities and scaremongering media caused vastly more health damage to the people of the area than the tiny amounts of radioactive leakage. Areas were evacuated in panic when there was a radiation level far below the normal background radiation in many parts of the world (such as most of Norway).
It is correct that the radiation risk from living next to a coal power station is negligible. I only said that the risk from living next to a nuclear power station is even smaller - not that the radiation risk from living near a coal power station is significant.
/Working/ in a coal power station is a different matter - the health risks there are significant, and much greater than in a nuclear power station.
It is also correct that the risks related to nuclear power are only of concern when something goes wrong - but in cases when things /have/ gone wrong, they have usually been vastly overstated. For coal power, however, there is real risk at every stage in the process in normal day-to-day operation.
Well, the Olympics used to have events such as poetry and sculpture!
No, I am not confusing risk and consequences. The risk of being involved in a nuclear incident are tiny, and the health consequences are far smaller than most people imagine.
The number of people actually killed or seriously injured as a result of nuclear disasters is /tiny/. The social and economic consequences of overreacting to the disasters is a very big effect, however.
Interesting read. Here is a quote talking about new reactors, "and all must be able to withstand the worst case disaster, no matter how unlikely". Unfortunately that does not apply to *any* of the approx.
100 reactors online in the US. The one that is less than 10 miles from me at this moment suffered damage from an earthquake and was offline for months. The earthquake exceeded the vibration level the plant was built for and in the initial application the company covered up the fact it was near a fault... as a consequence the company paid a $30,000 fine, lol!This is exactly the sort of thing that leads to Chernobyls and Fukishimas. The US is not immune to the poor thinking that goes into such problems. It is just a matter of time.
-- Rick
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