OT: If Ukraine and Russia make peace, who keeps the Russian occupied land?

Who do you think? Why is it that this kind of propaganda is now being pushed? And why are you assisting the propaganda?

What propaganda is that? Even Henry Kissinger said there'd have to be some Ukraine territory given up for a peace deal and he said it some time ago, too.

You would need to read the terms of the peace treaty to know that and it doesn't exist yet.

Have you been following the endless thread about the Ukrainians not wanting peace? It started out with Russian propaganda.

Kissinger is a blow hard. And has screwed up a lot of things.

There will be peace just as soon as the Russians are removed from Ukraine's territory. That it is currently in progress and is why the sudden propaganda about the Ukrainian's not wanting peace.

Surely they know what's planned to go in it? The BBC is already saying the Ukraine doesn't like what's in it - to do with not sanctioning Russia anymore.

They can fight to the end for all I care, as long as they stop taking our taxes without our permission to arm them.

We need to either pull out and let it finish quickly with less bloodshed on both sides, or go for an all out big f****ng explosion and destroy something.

What we have at the moment is akin to you seeing two people fighting in the street, and you handing one of them a sharp stick every so often. Either leave them be, or give one a gun, or beat the living daylights out of one.

This makes interesting reading (you may need a VPN to see it depending how communist your country is):

Sound like a bunch of appeasement, which never works.

And the next time you Brits want us to send our children to die to protect you from the repercussions of some stupid thing you pull, I remember your words.

Warmongers always call the peacemakers "appeasers" for obvious reasons. Sensible, civilised people seek peaceful solutions. Warmongers can go to hell where they belong.

Appeasers cause all the bloodshed and wars.

Those who can not or who are unwilling to fight do all the bleeding and dying.

War and crime are part of the human experience. The only way to cope with them is with a strong, professional military and a functioning justice system. It is the only way to assure peace. No one wants to hug a porcupine. Ever wonder why criminals shoot up "gun free zones"? It is because they are low risk targets.

Talk softly and carry a big stick.

In progress? The spring counteroffensive was a bust and October is coming. The rain in Ukraine falls mainly on the plain and turns it into a sea of mud. The winter comes and turns it into a sea of frozen mud. Maybe next year in Jerusalem.

The Russians are claiming another Challenger 2. There is enough propaganda to go around on both sides but I'll apply a variation of Occam's Razor. Which has more effect Russia falsely claiming another tank kill or the Western media refusing to say the invincible Challenger is all too vincible? 2 down, 12 to go.

Had the US sat out WWI arguably WWII would not have happened. Britain took a dog in the manger approach as the united Germany threatened to become an economic competitor. France joined in because they were still butt hurt after trying to put on their big boy pants in 1870 and getting their asses kicked.

Had the US sat out WWII there would be a working EU, the USSR would have been destroyed before taking over eastern Europe, and Europe would not be flooded with third world exploiters that want the benefits of a society they did not and could not create at home.

If Nuland and her pals had stayed out of Ukraine we would not be having this discussion. Nuland is the quintessential swamp creature and served under Clinton, Bush, Obama, and Biden. At least Trump caused her to take a brief vacation from the swamp.

Her husband, Kagan, has been beating the neoconservative drum since the Reagan era.

The "Bust" is propaganda. the Ukrainians are slowly making progress. It is just not the instant blitzkrieg some were hoping for. The Russians are getting their asses handed to them.

And the "mud" will freeze. And I bet when still muddy, the Ukrainians will use it to their advantage. And the Russians will cope by sending more of their children into the meat grinder

Well stated. WWI was so stupid I can hardly ...

Supposedly peace was going to break out before Boris visited and nixxed the deal.

Indeed, the only evil people in the world are NATO.

What appeasement was necessary prior to the US sponsored 'Revolution of Dignity' that overthrew the government that was elected in 2010. The 3100 international observers called it a free and fair election. Yanukovych received 48.95% of the vote, Tymoshenko 45.47%. In the best Hillary tradition Tymoshenko appealed but later withdrew her appeal.

Unfortunately Yanukovych did not meet the globalists' expectation and had to go.

Why are you supporting the end result of the globalists meddling in the affairs of a sovereign country? Don't you feel a bit of cognitive dissonance?