Oscillator

Chuck, Good points!

We've already noted the pain killer effect with self-doseage.

Being an engineer, he keeps a diary of what he's taking ;-)

...Jim Thompson

First, I feeling sorry with Jim's son.

From my second hand experiences with the so called palliative treatment, well ... this is crap.

In two cases close to me these measures were applied and they were just makeing them feel well while otherwise they'd have had infinite pain from cancer. So good this far. Less good was that each shot of morphine was much more expensive than a steet dose of the usual street drugs. IMO, palliative medicine is an organized rip off, to be had much better and cheaper in the lower quarters of almost every city. But since the bill is sent to the insurance, none cares. With morhine, death is just days away.

Rene

I don't think morphine is used anymore.

My son is presently taking oxycodone and something else with a similar name that I didn't fully catch.

...Jim Thompson

Possibly hydrocodone.

Watch out for versions of the two which include tylenol, since you mentioned a liver issue here. Tylenol is processed through four pathways in the liver. The primary pathway is relatively safe but is overwhelmed by about 1 gram spread out over a day in a healthy adult. The three alternate pathways are destructive to the liver and they are increasingly used when the primary pathway is exhausted. Hospitals and literally awash with tylenol because it lacks some complications they are worried about with other drugs they often use. But they will use it without telling you -- for example, to make a child groggy before an operation they will add the verset (itself, something that demolishes short term memory) to a pink elixir of tylenol. You won't be told about the tylenol, just the verset, though. So unless you ask, you won't know.

In any case, when I last investigated these details some years ago, I discovered that there were three research centers which were then currently studying tylenol's operation on humans. I called up and spoke at length with the principal investigators at two of these places (one in Texas, another near Wash DC I think.) Neither lead investigator I spoke with felt comfortable with the 4 grams a day that is the official level claimed as safe. Both of them told me that the primary pathway was exhausted at levels of around 1/4th of that -- at a gram. And they didn't equivocate on that point -- they were dead clear about it. (By the way, I didn't tell one about the conversation I'd had with the other, so the information about the amounts came from both of them independently -- a fact which I took to confirm that they were speaking from the research and not from my encouraging them to say some number.)

I believe that these two pain relievers (which I don't like because they make me very nauseated -- a cure worse than the ill) are often packaged with substantial quantities of tylenol. Keep track of the amounts. Individual tolerances, I'm sure, vary. No one's liver is the same as another. But under the circumstances you mention, and given the general discussions I've had in the past, I'd want to keep the daily intake _well_ under a gram -- perhaps on the order of 250mg or less. Look at what is being taken in along with the oxycodone or hydrocodone and, if possible, see about getting a purer form rather than an adulterated one. They do exist. They just don't like handing them out because of their illicit market value.

Jon

I'll check on that. Didn't occur to me to ask about Tylenol. I should have. I personally react to Tylenol as if it were a hallucinogen, so it's on my own allergy list.

...Jim Thompson

--- Can you post some links, please?

Cancer fascinates me.

An invader exploiting its host to the point where its host can no longer sustain itself and stay alive seems to me to be the ultimate stupidity.

Here you've gone to all the trouble of figuring out what you have to do to make the host think that you're part of "own ship", and then you suck own ship dry, guaranteeing your own demise.

Maybe that's part of the plan.

Kill the host and commit suicide if the host fights, otherwise wait...

-- John Fields Professional Circuit Designer

"John Fields" schreef in bericht news: snipped-for-privacy@4ax.com...

My simplified view is not about invaders with plans, but just a genetic defect that turns a normal cell into a fast dividing one. Like hair. Hair is not a problem, it grows out of your body and you can cut it off, if you like.

I'd be interested in what you find out, if you don't mind saying it here and can afford the distraction.

Jon

Hello Jim,

Just prayed for your son also and will continue to do that. Let us know how he progresses.

It is good that he has you as close family right in town.

Regards, Joerg

Jim Thompson wrote in news: snipped-for-privacy@4ax.com:

My sympathies; I know it looks grim, but I hope he can pull through. Especially tough to have it happen to someone so young.

--Damon

My whole (descendent) family are within 3 hours... oldest daughter is in Yuma, rest are spread around various Phoenix suburbs.

So we all swung into action to cover caring for the wife and granddaughter.

His wife's parents have now arrived to allow the granddaughter to reside at home and go to school.

...Jim Thompson

At first it appeared he gave up, but now he's come out fighting. I think he'll survive this.

...Jim Thompson

Morphine is the only one used when you get to the hospice stage and a few days from death. The survival rate for this Stage 4 colon cancer with metastasis in both liver and lungs is not very good, less than 5% at five years, but that's just a statistic and individual circumstances will always vary. The young age is what makes cases like your son's very tragic, this is not natural. I saw a few young ones, bald and dying in the terminal ward, when I was in the hospital last year, their health may have been fading but the youthful spirit was still alive and well within them, it's sickening.

"Jim Thompson" schreef in bericht news: snipped-for-privacy@4ax.com...

IMO, the chance of survival has very little to do with 'fighting'. Also, when a patient refuses further treatment like chemo etc, it is not a sign of weakness.

No Tylenol in the medications. In addition my son says the doctor loudly instructed the nurses "no Tylenol" AND "no aspirin".

...Jim Thompson

Fred, I've read the statistics. I'm a realist, yet I never give up.

...Jim Thompson

Good for you, Jim. As I always say, "Don't let the bastards win!" ;-)

Hello Jim,

That is a great support network. Often the spouse of a cancer patient needs even more care than the patient, they tend to worry a lot more. Sometimes my wife and I jump in here in the neighborhood when such families don't have nearby relatives. It's pretty easy for us since all our folks are far away.

Regards, Joerg

Excellent news!

Jon