I would suggest that people look at figure 5.4 on page 45 in the RISE report, and read the entirety of section 5.6: the fire outran the fire brigade.
Stavanger was discussed here on SED on 20 February 2022, when I posted data and URLs in the thread titled "Re: scary video of battery fire". The key finding was in the NFPA report.
Joe Gwinn
Look at the way the quotation marks are arranged. They are not claiming the fire officer said it was a diesel-powered vehicle, they are making that claim themselves and then quoting the fire officer about the way the fire spread. When that is read out in a radio news bulletin, where the quotation marks aren't conveyed to the listener, it makes it sound as though the diesel vehicle claim was made by the fire officer.
We now know the BBC's claim was not true. Interpret that how you will.
This is fact about the way diesel burn. If you had looked up the correct data instead of the closed-cup flash point, you would know this.
At the risk of repeating myself - No.
[...]Perhaps you didn't notice that, having read it, I summarised the relevant parts of that report in another post.
In the present context, perhaps I should take that as a compliment.
I read this. What is the relevance to what is being discussed?
Do we actually have the figures on a large enough number of incidents to be able to say that with any degree of certainty? If the number of vehicles with lithium batteries in them is only a tiny percentage of the total number of vehicles, a few incidents will make a huge difference to the apparent seriousness of the problem (or lack of it).
Norway has the highest proportion of plug-in electric vehicles on the road in Europe - 22% in 2021. It has been going up rapidly
There aren't all that many car fires to start with, so the numbers won't be huge - whence presumably the 2016 to 2019 reporting period.
The electric cars would have accumulated less wear and tear before they caught fire, which may distort the numbers in their favour, but cars do tend to catch on fire when they hit something so it probably isn't a significant factor.
The usual BS from BS.
Liz, you haven't been here long, so kindly allow me to introduce Bill Sloman, one of our long-term resident trolls on this NG. You will never convince him of anything; waste of time even trying. The man is impervious to logic and lives in his own little world, which revolves around using his keyboard to annoy other people around the world who have better things to do than argue with a troll. Nevertheless, he's proved extraordinarily effective at ensnaring innocent people into these long and pointless dialogues which achieve nothing for them but futile wasted hours when other pursuits would have been far more fruitful for them. Just so you know...
Yes, the BBC lied. They are not the bastion of Truth they would have everyone believe, I'm afraid. The official report will no doubt cite the fact that it was a hybrid vehicle's battery which was the cause of this conflagration, but by then no one will remember the BBC's original lie. In addition to that, the eventual report will never receive the extent of publicity that the fire itself generated. In the minds of the public, EVs will still be regarded as blameless.
Actually I have been here a long time but it was under my previous name. I believe in giving people the opportunity to add to our knowledge - even if that addition is nothing more than what sort of person they are.
What does the following tell you?
"When I look inside the car park .the moment I arrive, I get a slight feeling that This is something we can actually manage to combat! Because at that point I see 4-5 burning cars. But then I go out, put on my jacket, two radios, BAPS and Brann 0, dressing takes a little time I estimate...one minute, maybe two. When I walk towards the fire I see .ouf! This is lost!"
When you arrive at something as big as this ., you are the underdog. If I had all RBRs resources, to fight it from both ends, with the forces that were at play... there were 10 cars, after only a few minutes, 30... while we were setting up. Its maybe a bit arrogant to say so, but in order to achieve more, we should have arrived at the scene much earlier.
The entire plot in figure 5.4 covers five minutes.
The fire brigade people quoted above are saying that this went from maybe possible to totally hopeless in a minute or two.
Joe Gwinn
We do seem to. I found some and posted a link to it.
Liz and I have interacted before, and she knows that I'm not a troll. Cursitor Doom is an anonymous troll who posts a lot of stuff that isn't true, and this is one more of his inaccurate claims.
Cursitor Doom posts a lot of nonsense and resents it when this is pointed out. On current performance, Cursitor Doom is never going to persuade me of anything. Others have done better, but they have always adduced better evidence than Cursitor Doom can manage.
Or what Cursitor Doom imagines to be logic.
Which happens to include the peer-reviewed scientific literature, which Cursitor Doom rejects an international conspiracy to reject the demented delusions that Cursitor Doom holds dear.
Cursitor Doom thinks his time is profitably occupied by propagating fatuous nonsense which he culls from Russia Today and the Daily Mail.
Anybody who distracts him from this noble task by pointing out that he is posting nonsense is clearly a troll - at least for him.
Cursitor Doom resents having to explain why antiquated and defective numbers on atmospheric CO2 content from the 1890's trump more accurate and much more numerous modern measurments
Just so that Cursitor Doom can claim that he tried to mislead you. Or, from his point of view, correct a potential misconception.
They didn't lie. The vehicle that stated the fire was a diesel -powered hydrid Range Rover.
The lithium ion battery was under the passenger seat. It would have had to get up to about 125C before it could go into thermal runaway, and that would have taken a long time, and the driver would have noticed. It's extremely improbable that its thermal runaway could have cause the fire. If it had suffered impact damage. it might have done.
Cursitor Doom does lie at regular intervals. He's mostly reporting his ill-founded opinions so he may not realise that he is lying, but he does post a lot of stuff that isn't true.
Hey Bozo, your fiction of an "early warning system" is EXACTLY that: PURE FICTION! Once a lithium battery pack goes into thermal runaway you don't need an "early warning system" - the smoke and flames will tell you all you need to know. The highly flammable electrolyte just makes lithium batteries the perfect firebomb: the pressurized gasses inside the battery along with the self-generated oxygen turn them into the perfect flame torch.
Far from it. Sewage Sweeper doesn't known anything about the subject, so he doesn't know anything about battery condition monitoring or what it involves, and our efforts to educate him fall down on the fact that the senile brain can't learn anything.
The point that you can't get into your head is that lithium batteries can't go into thermal runaway until their core temperature gets above 125C if they have nickel in the electrode mix or 160C if they don't. If you monitor the battery core temperature as any sensible battery monitoring system will, you will know that it is showing dangerously high self-discharge if it gets up to 100C and can discharge the battery (making it safe) long before it can get to thermal runaway.
But the slow progression through increasing self-charge towards thermal runaway gives you plenty of time to anticipate and avoid that particular problem.
You are much too stupid to get your head around this point, no matter how often you get told about it.
Hey Bozo, your battery management "ideas" make as much sense as NUKING and FIREBOMBING YOUR OWN COUNTRY and putting in a super charger in your garage. Two car transport ships have been SUNK by EV fires and NO "early warning" was sent by any of these cars.
Nothing makes sense to you because your brain stopped working years ago. Your delusion about me wanting to "firebomb" my own country is the same delusion about thermal runway in lithium ion batteries. If you dump lithium ion batteries when they are merely warm (due to high self-discharge), but not hot enough to go into thermal runaway, they won't go on to go into thermal runaway, a concept that you are completely incapable of getting your head around.
And you could put a super-charger in your garage, if you had a Tesla Powerwall to deliver the power required when you wanted it.
You really are totally brain-dead, and obnoxious with it.
"Jet-A1" is basically kerosene which is practically the same thing. and that has collapsed two well known steel framed buildings.
Diesel vehicles don't self-combust by design, so the cause can still be unresolved even if the early history of the fire is known.
This is not the first time an unattended diesel vehicle has gone up.
a close ceiling will concentrate the heat and cause the fire to spread laterally more rapidly
We don't. We do know that it was a Range Rover, and while there are hybrid Range Rovers, nobody reliable has said that the one was.
If it was in fact a hybrid Range Rover.
Probably because they didn't have any reliable source for the information.
Cursitor Doom makes this kind of rhetorical wager all the time. The only thing at stake is long varnished reputation for knowing what he is talking about.
So we've got more of Cursitor Doom's passion for implausible - downright fatuous - conspiracy theories.
<snip>
This is one more of Cursitor Doom's fatuous conspiracy theories
If it was. Nobody reliable has said any more that the vehicle that started the fire was some kind of Range Rover - some of them are hydrids, but working that out from a surveillance video could be difficult.
If it was a lie, which seems unlikely.
And Cursitor Doom uses every chance to post lies that paint them as likely to catch on fire, when they seem to be substantially less likely to catch on fire than cars with internal combustion engines.
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