LT1933 Circuit Wierdness

What am I doing wrong?

I'm trying to simulate an LT1933 circuit, with LTSpice. The circuit works on the board, the schematic was basically cut and pasted from the data sheet in the first place -- yet the simulation delivers less than

1/5 of both the data sheet and actual values!!!

Might the latest & greatest LTSpice model for the LT1933 be flawed somehow?

I'm puzzled -- and frustrated, because I need to choke some answers out of the system that are best done with simulation, and this one obviously isn't accurate!

Version 4 SHEET 1 3076 680 WIRE 976 -96 768 -96 WIRE 1088 -96 1040 -96 WIRE 1152 -96 1088 -96 WIRE 1280 -96 1216 -96 WIRE 768 -16 768 -96 WIRE 560 48 560 -48 WIRE 624 48 560 48 WIRE 1072 48 912 48 WIRE 1088 48 1088 -96 WIRE 1088 48 1072 48 WIRE 1120 48 1088 48 WIRE 1248 48 1200 48 WIRE 1280 48 1280 -96 WIRE 1280 48 1248 48 WIRE 1392 48 1280 48 WIRE 1536 48 1392 48 WIRE 1616 48 1536 48 WIRE -160 80 -304 80 WIRE 96 80 -80 80 WIRE 112 80 112 64 WIRE 112 80 96 80 WIRE 1248 80 1248 48 WIRE 1392 80 1392 48 WIRE -304 112 -304 80 WIRE 96 144 96 80 WIRE 1616 144 1616 48 WIRE 1744 144 1616 144 WIRE 1856 144 1744 144 WIRE 560 176 560 48 WIRE 624 176 560 176 WIRE 1248 176 1248 160 WIRE 1248 176 912 176 WIRE 1744 176 1744 144 WIRE 1856 176 1856 144 WIRE 1248 192 1248 176 WIRE 1392 192 1392 144 WIRE 1392 192 1248 192 WIRE 1616 192 1616 144 WIRE -304 224 -304 192 WIRE 1248 224 1248 192 WIRE 96 240 96 208 WIRE 1072 240 1072 48 WIRE 1744 288 1744 256 WIRE 1856 288 1856 256 WIRE 768 304 768 240 WIRE 1616 304 1616 256 WIRE 1072 384 1072 304 WIRE 1248 384 1248 304 FLAG 112 64 +Vin FLAG -304 224 0 FLAG 1616 304 0 FLAG 1248 384 0 FLAG 1856 288 0 FLAG 560 -48 +Vin FLAG 768 304 0 FLAG 1072 384 0 FLAG 1536 48 Vout FLAG 96 240 0 FLAG 1744 288 0 SYMBOL voltage -304 96 R0 WINDOW 123 0 0 Left 2 WINDOW 39 0 0 Left 2 WINDOW 3 26 96 Left 2 SYMATTR InstName V1 SYMATTR Value PWL(0 0 100u 24 10m 24 200m 0) SYMBOL cap 1600 192 R0 SYMATTR InstName C1 SYMATTR Value 47µ SYMBOL res 1232 64 R0 SYMATTR InstName R1 SYMATTR Value 1meg SYMBOL current 1856 176 R0 WINDOW 123 0 0 Left 2 WINDOW 39 0 0 Left 2 SYMATTR InstName I1 SYMATTR Value PWL(0 0 5m 0 10m 0 10.01m 50m) SYMBOL PowerProducts\\LT1933 768 112 R0 SYMATTR InstName U1 SYMBOL ind 1104 64 R270 WINDOW 0 32 56 VTop 2 WINDOW 3 5 56 VBottom 2 SYMATTR InstName L1 SYMATTR Value 47µ SYMBOL cap 1040 -112 R90 WINDOW 0 0 32 VBottom 2 WINDOW 3 32 32 VTop 2 SYMATTR InstName C2 SYMATTR Value 220n SYMBOL schottky 1216 -112 R90 WINDOW 0 0 32 VBottom 2 WINDOW 3 32 32 VTop 2 SYMATTR InstName D1 SYMATTR Value CMDSH2-3 SYMATTR Description Diode SYMATTR Type diode SYMBOL schottky 1088 304 R180 WINDOW 0 24 64 Left 2 WINDOW 3 24 0 Left 2 SYMATTR InstName D2 SYMATTR Value MBR0540 SYMATTR Description Diode SYMATTR Type diode SYMBOL res 1232 208 R0 SYMATTR InstName R2 SYMATTR Value 330k SYMBOL cap 1376 80 R0 SYMATTR InstName C3 SYMATTR Value 10p SYMBOL res -64 64 R90 WINDOW 0 0 56 VBottom 2 WINDOW 3 32 56 VTop 2 SYMATTR InstName R3 SYMATTR Value 4.7 SYMBOL cap 80 144 R0 SYMATTR InstName C4 SYMATTR Value 10µ SYMBOL res 1728 160 R0 SYMATTR InstName R4 SYMATTR Value 100 TEXT -336 584 Left 2 !.tran 20m

--

Tim Wescott 
Wescott Design Services 
http://www.wescottdesign.com
Reply to
Tim Wescott
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[snip]

Boost diode cathode connected in wrong place ;-) ...Jim Thompson

--
| James E.Thompson                                 |    mens     | 
| Analog Innovations                               |     et      | 
| Analog/Mixed-Signal ASIC's and Discrete Systems  |    manus    | 
| San Tan Valley, AZ 85142   Skype: Contacts Only  |             | 
| Voice:(480)460-2350  Fax: Available upon request |  Brass Rat  | 
| E-mail Icon at http://www.analog-innovations.com |    1962     | 
              
I love to cook with wine.     Sometimes I even put it in the food.
Reply to
Jim Thompson

D'oh. Or shift your eyes a bit and the boost cap in wrong, or sump'tin.

Thanks. That's a mistake that I would have looked at 1000 times and never have seen.

(My schematic is correct -- or at least matches the data sheet. It's the stupid simulation that I got wrong).

--

Tim Wescott 
Wescott Design Services 
http://www.wescottdesign.com
Reply to
Tim Wescott

I almost missed it myself. Had to stare at it for awhile before I realized it didn't match the data sheet ;-) ...Jim Thompson

--
| James E.Thompson                                 |    mens     | 
| Analog Innovations                               |     et      | 
| Analog/Mixed-Signal ASIC's and Discrete Systems  |    manus    | 
| San Tan Valley, AZ 85142   Skype: Contacts Only  |             | 
| Voice:(480)460-2350  Fax: Available upon request |  Brass Rat  | 
| E-mail Icon at http://www.analog-innovations.com |    1962     | 
              
I love to cook with wine.     Sometimes I even put it in the food.
Reply to
Jim Thompson

The other way around is worse. Simulation works fine and prototype goes kablouie because of a transcription error from LTSpice to CAD. Guys, honest now, who had that happen?

--
Regards, Joerg 

http://www.analogconsultants.com/
Reply to
Joerg

That's what is nice in my chip world... I compare the extracted netlist from the layout against my simulation netlist. So layout errors never happen if LVS (layout-versus-schematic) passes. ...Jim Thompson

--
| James E.Thompson                                 |    mens     | 
| Analog Innovations                               |     et      | 
| Analog/Mixed-Signal ASIC's and Discrete Systems  |    manus    | 
| San Tan Valley, AZ 85142   Skype: Contacts Only  |             | 
| Voice:(480)460-2350  Fax: Available upon request |  Brass Rat  | 
| E-mail Icon at http://www.analog-innovations.com |    1962     | 
              
I love to cook with wine.     Sometimes I even put it in the food.
Reply to
Jim Thompson

Sometimes I have behavioral stuff in simulations so that the sim doesn't take days to finish. That's when it gets dicey because electronic netlist compares don't work anymore.

--
Regards, Joerg 

http://www.analogconsultants.com/
Reply to
Joerg

You are subject to a world where manufacturer's behavioral models can eat your case.

I'm not... now-a-days, device-level models are superb, from _all_ foundries.

I've tried to create a business model where I create behavioral models by A-B exercising them against a device-level netlist.

But no one wants to play. Companies are so paranoid, they think I would steal, or pass along, their proprietary information.

I'd be a fool to do that... one instance and I'd be out of business.

And it would've been a fun business :-( ...Jim Thompson

--
| James E.Thompson                                 |    mens     | 
| Analog Innovations                               |     et      | 
| Analog/Mixed-Signal ASIC's and Discrete Systems  |    manus    | 
| San Tan Valley, AZ 85142   Skype: Contacts Only  |             | 
| Voice:(480)460-2350  Fax: Available upon request |  Brass Rat  | 
| E-mail Icon at http://www.analog-innovations.com |    1962     | 
              
I love to cook with wine.     Sometimes I even put it in the food.
Reply to
Jim Thompson

It just struck me what you said above.

I would presume the behavioral stuff would apply to a packaged part?

Then all the behavior stuff would be buried within the package-symbol representation of the part.

It's trivial to have the netlister stop at the package pins, and produce a proper netlist for PCB. ...Jim Thompson

--
| James E.Thompson                                 |    mens     | 
| Analog Innovations                               |     et      | 
| Analog/Mixed-Signal ASIC's and Discrete Systems  |    manus    | 
| San Tan Valley, AZ 85142   Skype: Contacts Only  |             | 
| Voice:(480)460-2350  Fax: Available upon request |  Brass Rat  | 
| E-mail Icon at http://www.analog-innovations.com |    1962     | 
              
I love to cook with wine.     Sometimes I even put it in the food.
Reply to
Jim Thompson

Nope, that would be too easy.

It's when whole circuit chunks are replaced with a behavioral equivalent or a "fudge formula" controlled by current/voltage in some other part of the circuit.

This is not to diss behavioral simulation. One of the future projects could require me to simulate part of an engine that way, and that's when behavioral comes in real handy.

--
Regards, Joerg 

http://www.analogconsultants.com/
Reply to
Joerg

So you're behavioral modeling a collection of parts (aka a "system")?

Live by behavioral, die by behavioral >:-} ...Jim Thompson

--
| James E.Thompson                                 |    mens     | 
| Analog Innovations                               |     et      | 
| Analog/Mixed-Signal ASIC's and Discrete Systems  |    manus    | 
| San Tan Valley, AZ 85142   Skype: Contacts Only  |             | 
| Voice:(480)460-2350  Fax: Available upon request |  Brass Rat  | 
| E-mail Icon at http://www.analog-innovations.com |    1962     | 
              
I love to cook with wine.     Sometimes I even put it in the food.
Reply to
Jim Thompson

Yup.

Man's got to do what man's got to do. (John Wayne)

--
Regards, Joerg 

http://www.analogconsultants.com/
Reply to
Joerg

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