How does a wet cloth really help (scientifically) to survive an airplane crash?

This is very interesting. It makes sense.

Here's an airplane lithium battery fire article that partially backs up your observation that the halon itself doesn't prevent the toxic fumes from killing us.

Hmmmmmm... isn't that the *opposite* of how Halon works in a fire?

I tried to find an airplane cabin fire article that backed you up.

For example, this was the first hit:

But, all that article said was that the carbon monoxide from the aircraft cabin fire would displace the oxygen.

And, specifically, it said that halon does *not* "displace the oxygen" which is how carbon dioxide extinguishers work.

Here's what the article said, verbatim (in part) about the benefits:

--------------------------------- Halon is an effective agent on Class B and C fires, the ones you're most likely to see in an aircraft.

It works in gas form, so it will not obscure your vision like the powder emitted from dry chemical extinguishers. Basically, it's invisible.

As a gas, it's capable of getting into hard-to-reach places like the inner workings of your instrument panel.

It's a non-corrosive clean agent, which means it won't damage items it comes into contact with.

It won't shock-cool your avionics.

It's lighter and more efficient than CO2. Halons are low-toxicity, chemically stable compounds.

Sounds perfect, right? Well, there are a few drawbacks.

We said that Halon has low toxicity. But it's not benign or entirely non-toxic, and you wouldn't want to introduce it to your respiratory system given the choice. "But everyone, including the FAA, recognizes that it's better to put out the fire effectively than to worry about breathing the Halon,"

Thank you Stormin' Mormon, for explaining that the proposed supposition that halon displaced oxygen was not supported in the literature.

I found a similar explanation to yours in this FAA book on aircraft Fire Protection Systems:

It's pretty troubling that some people believe stuff that has absolutely zero references in the literature that backs up their claims.

I'm glad you're not one of them!

So, why do they take away our water bottles?

Yep. As I mentioned I was trying to go with 30 year old memories. That, and I never did inspections....

ur

stry

I believe that a wet cloth helps save your life in an airplane fire by both adsorbing hydrogen cyanide and filtering out smoke particles. The bit abo ut adsorbing hydrogen cyanide is not common knowledge. Filtering out smoke particles is obvious to the most casual observer and not worth mentioning. If you use a wet cloth to adsorb hydrogen cyanide , you will benefit from the filtering.

Now my question is how does this relate to electronic design?

Dan

I understood exactly what you are saying. That does not in anyway change the basis for my comment, nor the 'value' of my comment [value to me, anyway].

Given that it is not possible to conduct experiments yourself, what else can be relied upon? except the results of others, possibly purported, experiments. Good idea to go find as much 'literature' on the subject as possible. Kudoes to you.

Though, I was surprised to find that you found a lack of literature/evidence supporting hot gases searing the lungs causing mortal injuries. Growing up, I had always been warned about that potential hazard from house fire, and especially 'body' fire. Giving the warning of mortal damage to your lungs to justify becoming prone. - as in, keep low to exit, or roll to put out your body fire. But ALWAYS do not position your head high up or above 'fire'. Instead you seemed to find evidence that the body cools those hot gases so fast that it is not worth considering them as a source of risk.

My thought processes regarding safety around aircraft fire warnings kind of stopped paying attention to information after what seemed to me to be the completely asinine instructions of 'take off your shoes in preparation for a crash' and 'ok, now run through molten aluminum' types of instructions. Why are you asked to remove your shoes? What basis is that? After aircraft fuel sprays everywhere and igniting doesn't strike me as a potential win-win situation. Rather, keeping the strategy of 'move your bloomin' arse' seems the appropriate attitude to maintain. And of course, pause/check yourself out, be ready to roll on the ground at a distance, because you may not even know/realize you're on fire.

From personal experience, 'pain' is one of the FIRST sensations to disappear [also hearing], especially during duress. Thus, keep in mind to be 'self aware and self-careful' You may be burning, or missing extremities/limbs which you might try to rely upon to be functioning for an emergency egress, so act accordingly. [I don't have the literature reference to support this, but was always told] This sounds gross, but don't pull injured people unless absolutely necessary, you might pull them apart, instead try to coerce them into moving themselves. The human body has a tendency to not hurt itself and moving under self volition is the preferred manner of moving an injured person.

And please don't come back suggesting to wake up an unconscious injured person by 'slapping them silly' just to coerce them into moving themselves.

that should have read, "....please, people, don't..."

not pointed towards the OP.

As long as you buy the water from their concessionaires, they don't take it away.

The basis of that is that there have been instances where shoes have punctured the slides, especially high heels. Although I do have to admit, that may be left over from earlier experience.

Seems to me, an emergency kit for an airplane, could include a wash cloth of a size sufficient to cover both your nose and mouth, in a plastic bag.

The use model would be that you go through airport security with the wash cloth dry.

Then, when you get to the gate, you soak it from a nearby water fountain or bathroom wash sink.

What else would you put in the cabin-fire emergency kit that makes sense (note that a smoke hood doesn't really make economic sense, as outlined in the papers reported).

Thanks for checking up on whether the alcohol makes the HCN gas less reactive.

I didn't realize that a vodka drink could catch fire.

That makes sense, if it can.

At least that part of my memory works.

As I remember from my fire protection courses, that (not displacing oxygen) was one of the advantages of halon. Of course, the government found it to be ozone toxic and outlawed it.

Put that on the list of "if it works, outlaw it" along with DDT and machine guns.

Given a choice, I'd be the last man out. And I'd be throwing shoes out of the plane, for people to put on. Yes, I'm that kind of guy. Next, I throw my own shoes out. Of course, I'd have to beat the stewardess into unconscious, they are trained like ambulance guys to be a real pest when you aren't doing what they want.

Might be best advice I've heard. Perhaps article of clothing, which has plausible deniability. Pair of new socks?

Considering that you're further endangering their lives, I don't think many would blame them from kicking your ass.

You didn't answer the question. What's wrong with you?

Read trader for details.

All *YOUR* conclusions. Not ours. No one here has agreed with your nonsense.

If you don't see the connection, you're blind, or intentionally blind, or lying, or stupid.

Your chances of being in an airplane crash are minute, parts-per-million. Given a crash, your chances of surviving are fundamentally low. Seems like something not worth worrying about.