Happy Earth Day

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https://wattsupwiththat.com/2016/04/22/seven-earth-day-predictions-that-failed-spectacularly/

Things aren't looking so bad.


--  

John Larkin         Highland Technology, Inc
picosecond timing   precision measurement  

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Re: Happy Earth Day
On 4/22/2016 5:05 PM, John Larkin wrote:
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What a bizarre web site.  Three of the seven predictions are the same  
one, the prediction in the 70's that population which grows  
geometrically will outstrip food production which has a finite cap.  
Even though we had a green revolution which put off the inevitable, this  
is still in our future unless something is done to limit population.  
The largest countries in the world are again growing at large rates.

The one about air pollution is actually one of the greenie's success  
stories.  It is only because government mandated reductions in air  
pollution emissions that we our air quality has improved!  My home was  
losing all the lichen in the 70's because it was within 60 miles of  
Washington and Baltimore.  Now lichens have returned and the air is much  
better.  I remember the gray haze that used to hang over the nation's  
capitol.

Population control will be inevitable unless it happens as a natural  
consequence of overpopulation which is possible.

I like the fact that this article ridicules predictions that were made  
for a specific date while ignoring the underlying truth of the  
principle.  Resources are finite.  Resources like oil are much more  
limited than we would like.  Yes, there will be oil for some time to  
come, but it will become more and more costly to find and extract,  
eventually becoming far too expensive to burn for energy not even  
considering the cost of doing so in terms of the environmental impact.

--  

Rick

Re: Happy Earth Day
On 04/22/2016 05:44 PM, rickman wrote:

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Haha, it's such a Republican SOP isn't it?

1972: Scientists predict that without fast action, shit is going to jump  
up pretty soon.

<a few people wake up and start working furiously behind the scenes to  
buy some extra time>

2016: Republicans look back on the predictions and are like "Heh, they  
said in 1972 shit was going to jump up, but we seem to still be alive.  
LOL, dummy scientists."




Re: Happy Earth Day
bitrex wrote:
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Maybe not in your universe, but in this one a Republican created the EPA  
and the endangered species act passed with only 1 'no' vote.  And I'm  
pretty sure Republicans had more than one seat at the time.



Re: Happy Earth Day
On 04/23/2016 12:45 PM, Tom Del Rosso wrote:
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Right, apparently the Republican Party had some sense, once.

40 years ago.

Re: Happy Earth Day
On 04/23/2016 04:43 PM, bitrex wrote:
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Basically before it was co-opted by a bunch of neoconservatives,  
deregulators, religious whackjobs and various goons and neer-do-wells of  
all types...

Re: Happy Earth Day
bitrex wrote:
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No, environmental regulations had some sense, once, until 50 years ago  
when the environmental movement was co-opted by whack jobs.  If the  
endangered species act had a list of 42 mammals and 45 clams and a  
hundred insects at the time it was written, even Democrats wouldn't have  
voted for it.  That's just an inference but it really is a certainty  
that they wouldn't have voted for it.

Then it was co-opted again by a new generation of whack jobs, some of  
whom figured out that they could turn global warming into the biggest  
redistribution of wealth program of all time.  Putin mused that global  
warming would be "a good thing because we wouldn't have to wear hats",  
but he came on board when he realized that his country could make money  
from it.  A lot of other countries can make money from it too.  Guess  
which ones loose.  Democrats wouldn't have voted for that either in  
1972, but they're insane now.

When they pulled off a world-wide ban on DDT they thought they were  
saving birds.  Maybe they were, but do you think most Democrats of the  
time would have gone along if they knew malaria would return and kill 50  
million people in Africa and Asia?  But if you ask a Democrat today (I  
have) if the DDT ban was a mistake they say, "Well no..."  Of what  
importance are 50 million people when you might have saved 100 million  
birds?  And you think we're co-opted by whack jobs.

Three firemen die in a forest fire because the plane can't scoop up  
water from a neaby lake, because then three fish might die.  A whole  
neighborhood burns down because, in the first place loggers can't remove  
dry growth, and then because the mole rat's tunnels might be damaged if  
we dig a fire break.  We can rebuild a neighborhood and all the personal  
possessions in it but the mole rats would have to take a whole day out  
of their schedules to dig new tunnels.  And you think we're co-opted by  
whack jobs.

As for those predictions from 1970 that you think would have come true  
if you hadn't prevented them, they would be material for a great  
satirical comedy if they weren't real predictions:
 https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Earth_Day#Predictions_from_Earth_Day_1970

Remember those the next time you say Republicans are "fear-mongering"  
when we point out that Social Security will break the budget by 2040.  
Because it will and, in another contrast, we don't have to keep pushing  
that prediction forward.  You will bring it closer with socialized  
medicine.




Re: Happy Earth Day
On Sat, 23 Apr 2016 19:34:37 -0400, "Tom Del Rosso"

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The original definition of "species" meant a group of critters that
could mate and product offspring. The current definition is much
fuzzier, so there are many more species than there used to be. A bunch
of prarie dogs with reddish tails is now a distinct species, so has to
be protected.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Species_problem



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The environmental movement has very little respect for human life and
suffering. Contempt, actually.


--  

John Larkin         Highland Technology, Inc

lunatic fringe electronics  


Re: Happy Earth Day
On Sat, 23 Apr 2016 16:47:44 -0700, John Larkin

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Same deal with salmon.  They assign them to a species based on where
they spawn, not the ability.

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Fact.

Re: Happy Earth Day
On Sunday, April 24, 2016 at 9:47:46 AM UTC+10, John Larkin wrote:
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<snipped the usual rubbish>
  
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Don't be silly. You've been reading too much Republican propaganda and taking it more seriously than it deserves.

--  
Bill Sloman, Sydney

Re: Happy Earth Day
On 4/23/2016 8:46 PM, snipped-for-privacy@ieee.org wrote:
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We have more guns now.  When you have more guns, endangered species  
thrive, crime is reduced, there is less pollution, and global warming  
can't happen.  Plus, everybody gets more beer and better pay, so they  
can afford a diesel pickup truck, jacked up, with 30" mudgrips and drive  
it to the yacht club.


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=tq33Hx2mZ5o


--  
Grizzly H.





Re: Happy Earth Day
John Larkin wrote:
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Yeah, in the Amazon region Darwin found beetle "varieties", as they were  
called then, that didn't exist 100 yards away.  They mutated so fast  
they became "extinct" every few years.

In 1980 David Attenborough made the fantastic BBC series Life on Earth,  
in which he said "we have never been able to eliminate a single species  
of them" (insects).

But then environmentalists realized they can claim that hundreds of  
species become extinct every day, if they claim that varieties are  
species.


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Humans are "an infection in the body of the living planet", and that's  
real scientific thinking!  "We have to trust science", "Republicans  
don't understand science", etc, ad nauseum.



Re: Happy Earth Day
On Sunday, April 24, 2016 at 10:57:16 AM UTC+10, Tom Del Rosso wrote:
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Human numbers have increased spectacularly since we invented agriculture

http://www.prb.org/Publications/Articles/2002/HowManyPeopleHaveEverLivedonEarth.aspx

from about 5 million hunter-gatherers at 8000BC to about 500 million subsistence farmers in 1650, and it has gone up another order of magnitude since we mechanised agriculture.

That looks very like an infection.

Anthropogenic global warming is changing the planetary environment. That looks very like fever.

The last time anything like that happened was when photosynthesis evolved, and the oxygen content of the atmosphere went up from nothing to 35% before falling back to the current 21%.

http://www.prb.org/Publications/Articles/2002/HowManyPeopleHaveEverLivedonEarth.aspx

That took a couple of billion years, and was a lot more significant.

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Republicans don't want to understand science, because if they did, they'd have to assent to measures that they really don't like.

You don't have to trust science, but the consequences of ignoring seem likely to be dire - which is an insight based on scientific evidence.

--  
Bill Sloman, Sydney


Re: Happy Earth Day
snipped-for-privacy@ieee.org wrote:
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I'm not sure how that's supposed to refute John's point, but it sure is  
scientific thinking, like the science of Dr Mengele.




Re: Happy Earth Day
On Sunday, April 24, 2016 at 1:25:11 AM UTC-4, Tom Del Rosso wrote:
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At least they practice what they preach (unlike Al 'Diamond' Gore).

http://www.nbcnews.com/id/42711922/ns/technology_and_science-science/t/earth-day-co-founder-killed-composted-girlfriend/
 "Ira Einhorn was on stage hosting the first Earth Day event at the
  Fairmount Park in Philadelphia on April 22, 1970. Seven years later,
  police raided his closet and found the 'composted' body of his
  ex-girlfriend inside a trunk."

Hey, recycling!

Cheers,
James Arthur

Re: Happy Earth Day
snipped-for-privacy@yahoo.com wrote:
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Yeah, I had heard that one of the founders of this newest holiday (Holy  
Day because it's a religion) had killed his girlfriend and his followers  
helped him hide out, but I didn't try to look up his name so didn't  
mention it.

He was the emcee, so obviously played a large role, yet his name doesn't  
appear on wikipedia's earth day page, which tells me that he probably  
was the real founder and not the guy they now claim.

"She went out for tofu and bean sprouts and didn't come back."  I love  
that part.

Ever been to a vegetarian restaurant?  Worst vegetables I've ever had.  
They actually had raw string beans as an appetizer, no different from  
eating them straight from the produce bin.  There was a couple at  
another table that actually ordered it and they were eating them, raw,  
plain, and dry.  I had something that was cooked and required some  
preparation, but it was almost inedible.




Re: Happy Earth Day
On 04/23/2016 07:34 PM, Tom Del Rosso wrote:
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Those numbers don't even seem like very much.

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Please provide cited references that any of the above "cool stories"  
EVER actually happened the way you tell them, and aren't just cool stories.

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Yeah all those other countries with socialized medicine? yeah they died.



Re: Happy Earth Day
bitrex wrote:
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Just pay attention and remember details.


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The OMB and CBO didn't make the same prediction about other countries,  
did they?  The analysis was done around 20 years ago and you still  
haven't heard of it.



Re: Happy Earth Day
bitrex wrote:
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You didn't quote the other cool story, about the 50 million dead because  
of the DDT ban, maybe because the left is now aware of that.  
Conservatives started talking about it in the 1980's when it first  
became apparent that malaria had returned.  In 2006 I saw a committee  
hearing on CSPAN where Senator Clinton learned about this and said to  
the expert witness, "Thank you, we've never heard of this before."  The  
conservatives in the Senate, or at least the most rabid of them, had  
heard of it many years earlier.  The left and the moderates who go along  
with them still don't want to bring back DDT, so while millions die each  
year they study alternatives.




Re: Happy Earth Day
On Sun, 24 Apr 2016 12:59:07 -0400, "Tom Del Rosso"

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Lets then discuss your claim. I'll copy it here:

"When they pulled off a world-wide ban on DDT they thought they were  
saving birds.  Maybe they were, but do you think most Democrats of the
time would have gone along if they knew malaria would return and kill
50 million people in Africa and Asia?  But if you ask a Democrat today
(I have) if the DDT ban was a mistake they say, "Well no..."  Of what  
importance are 50 million people when you might have saved 100 million
birds?  And you think we're co-opted by whack jobs."


There has never been a world-wide ban on DDT. Even after the EPA
banned it for agricultural use within the USA it remained available
there for disease control, and it was used for that purpose.
e.g. in 1979 it was used to control fleas carrying Typhus in
Louisiana, & California Department of Health Services used DDT to
suppress fleas that carried bubonic plague.

http://jmvh.org/article/ddt-and-silent-spring-fifty-years-after/

 Some individual countries did impose complete bans, others such as
India have continued to manufacture and use it in significant
quantities. The current global use is 4000 - 5000 tonnes per year.

Early this century The Stockholm Convention eventually  allowed it to
continue to be used for disease control.  

http://www.malaria.org/DDTpage.html
http://chm.pops.int/TheConvention/ThePOPs/The12InitialPOPs/tabid/296/Default.aspx
http://www.pops.int/documents/ddt/Global%20status%20of%20DDT%20SSC%2020Oct08.pdf

DDT is not a magic bullet, many mosquito populations have developed
resistance to it, see page 10 of the last url.

I suggest the whack jobs that fed you a load of nonsense about DDT
really are quite close to your position on the political spectrum.

Regards
Malcolm.
--  
remove sharp objects to get a valid email address



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