TL Lamp, Bad wire, Orange glow, Hot block, Fuse blown ?

Hello,

The TL lamp on the ceiling in my kitchen is acting up a bit strangely.

(As I wrote before, it failed in the morning Prince died =D :))

It started to glow orange.

Today I investigated further and made some videos of it.

The first video shows a bad wire, the lamp coming on without the fuse in place:

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This bad wire was always like that, it's from previous owners living here.

I wonder if this bad wire might have somehow caused a short circuit ? Maybe there was a strange kind of spike/spark causing it to arc to the rest ?

"Transients" or something a known phenomenon in electrical grids. Anyway I did not notice any popping or sparks when I tried to turn it on that day.

The second video shows what happens when the fuse (I assume it's a fuse ?) is attached, it starts to glow orange:

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Why does it glow orange ? Is that supposed to be a warning sign/indicator ?

The last video shows this strange block inside the lamp, not sure what this is ? Perhaps some kind of "adapter" to change 220 volts into something else ?

It seems to get hot when the lamp glows orange, so I consider that a somewhat dangerous situation. When the lamp burns normally I assume it stays cool, haven't really checked that thoroughly yet though...

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Please give some advice to what you make of all this ?

Some remaining questions:

Why does this TL lamp come with it's own fuse ?

Would it be dangerous to use it without the fuse ?

What would be the risks/dangers of using it without the fuse ?

Bye, Skybuck.

P.S.: (Let's consider this a 1 bit computer lol :) on/off =D so I add this pc-homebuilt group too ;) in case you don't have the electronics group ! ;))

Reply to
Skybuck Flying
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The device is not a fuse, it's a "starter switch". It is designed to turn the filaments of the tube on and off. The glow you are seeing is the filaments at each end of the tube. Since you have removed the starter they are turned on for as long as you have the starter out. Starter switches wear out after a time as does the tube. Running it for prolonged times with the starter out will greatly decrease the life of the tube.

Reply to
Rheilly Phoull

Other way round. Starter removed = filaments off, no power dissipation.

NT

Reply to
tabbypurr

I thought I was done with this story but there is more too it.

I was just cleaning up the excessive lamps and boxes and such and thought that just the starter was bad and that I could continue using the old lamp !?

Well guess what ?!

The lamp itself is also bad... it flickers in a somewhat strange manner.

So:

  1. The starter is bad. (proved this by replacing the lamp and removing the starter)
  2. The lamp itself is also bad. (proved this by removing the starter and placing back the "original" lamp).

Now a spooky question comes to mind:

What could have caused both devices to fail at the same time ?

Is such an occurence/event known to occur ?!?

The documentation from osram does advice to replace both lamp and starter during the replacement of a lamp.

Anyway back to question, what could have caused both devices to fail at same time ?

Let's examine possibilities:

  1. Bad starter damaged lamp.

This possibility seems unlikely, the starter was tested with a new lamp. The new lamp does not come on with the starter but stays orange. Even after repeatedly on/off/on/off with bad started attached, the new lamp will remain functioning, a bad starter does not seem to damage the new lamp immediatly. I tested this just yet, I risked damaging the lamp but such damage did not occur. The new lamp does flicker a bit before turning on completely.

  1. Bad lamp damaged starter ?

This seems to be the only possibility to remain. Could the bad lamp somehow have damaged the starter ?

I do not have a replacement starter so I cannot test this possibility to see if a bad lamp could damage a new starter ?

All in all quite a strange occurence.

The history of this system was that a bad lamp has been replaced in the passed, as far as I know the starter was never replaced.

I leave you now with proof/a video that the lamp is bad too:

video part 4 of 4:

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Bye, Skybuck.

Reply to
Skybuck Flying

Ok that strange... one of the new lamps won't come on... maybe I did damage it by connecting it to the bad starter.

Well I won't repeat the test with another new lamp otherwise I will ramp out of functioning lamps ?! ;)

Or perhaps the new lamp was actually already bad... but it doesn't seem like it... I'm pretty sure both new lamps functioned... now one new lamp won't come on.. even if starter is not connected..

Hmmm...

So for now I will assume:

  1. Bad starter can actually damage new lamp ?

Bye, Skybuck.

Reply to
Skybuck Flying

It's possible I placed back a bad lamp some time ago just to pull a prank on myself... and to see if I could figure it out ! LOL. STUPID ! LOL.

Now I kinda regret such thoughts/things/deeds.

Because now I am starting to doubt myself... now I am not sure if both lamps... worked... three lamps in total.

The old one, definetly bad... and two new ones... one of which is now also bad it seems.

Though once I get a new starter if at all... then I can test if those two lamps are indeed both bad.

For now on I will just have to through away bad electrical components otherwise I can't be sure of my electricity time travel EXPERIMENTS ! LOLOLOLOLOLOL.

And predictive powers ! =D

Bye, Skybuck =D

Reply to
Skybuck Flying

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Paul

Reply to
Paul

Yer right of course, I need a brain reset.

Reply to
Rheilly Phoull

It's common for them to fail together.

NT

Reply to
tabbypurr

"

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"

How come I can start the current kitchen TL lamp without a starter ?

I don't quite get why this starter is necessary ?

Is it to force TL lamps of lesser quality to also start ?

Is it to ensure that as the TL lamp wears down it can still start ?

Is it to speed up the starting of the TL lamp ?

Is it to prevent the TL lamp from wearing out faster and somebody wrote ?

It only says to heat up elements, don't quite get why that would be necessary seeing that the TL lamp already starts ?!

Hmmm...

Bye, Skybuck.

Reply to
Skybuck Flying

I have no idea what a TL lamp is.

Ah, OK, the terminology is explained here.

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T=Tension (voltage), L=Laag (low)

And there are a whole pile of Philips tubes of that description in the list.

*******

The OSRAM technical guide document in my previous post, gives information on what the ST-111 starter does. Normally, with the wide variety of sockets and fittings, you're prevented from mixing the wrong ones together, just by the nature of the electrodes, tube dimensions and so on.

The starter is delivering a single inductive "spike" to the just-heated mercury vapor. (The starter has a bimetallic strip and heater inside it, to time the start sequence.) Once the tube begins to conduct (because of the "spike" to prime the conduction path), the tube runs without needing the services of the starter any longer. Until the next time you need to switch the light on.

Take the light and starter to a "lighting store", to make sure you're mixing the right items together. I have a couple stores like that here, where I get obscure bulbs for things (the halogen bulb in my floor lamp). While department stores have most standard bulbs, if you need technical help, a proper lighting store, at least they will have the catalog with the list of tube and starters that can be mixed together. The staff in department stores don't know anything about that stuff, but a lighting store, one that sells track lighting systems, or obscure light bulb types like this one, they'll know exactly what is needed.

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Paul

Reply to
Paul

4-80w starters are a standard universal part. Just check the new one is 4-80w or covers the tube wattage.

NT

Reply to
tabbypurr

" 4-80w starters are a standard universal part. Just check the new one is 4-80w or covers the tube wattage. "

Hello,

I did do as suggested :) took the TL lamp in it's box and bag and starter to the store.

I said to the guy: "carefull with that lamp".

After purchasing the new starters he said: "I thought the lamp was bad" :)

So a bit dangerous ! =D

2 starters were bought for 4 euros. (3.99)

The new starters seemed a bit different, it says:

PHILIPS CE S10 ECOCLICK STARTER

4-65W 220-240V SINGLE UL, EN EC 05 SA EAC Made in The Netherlands LM 56789/\

I asked about the 4-65W range which seems different.

Good th He: "See that lamp".

Me: "Yeah it's 35 watts"

He: "So it's in range, that's what matters"

Me convinced it was a good deal, so the starter were bought.

I just tested all 3 TL lamps and all are working.

Since the starters are much cheaper than the LT lamps I have decided to place back the old TL lamp which still works together with the new starter and will see how long it lasts ! ;)

So far all seems fine again !

However I did notice the adapter (?) does get quite hot ! And the starter also a little bit. Not sure if that is normal but this does convince me to keep that light off as much as possible to prevent it's lifetime from being reduced by possible overheat ! ;) Not too mention my dad once said these lamps costs lots of energy... well seeing the 35 watt rating doesn't seem that bad ?! ;)

Bye, Skybuck =D

P.S.: Thanks for the advice it came in much handy ! =D (I went to handy store ! LOL ;) :) =D)

Reply to
Skybuck Flying

to

)

so he wanted to sell you something

ouch. 1/10th the price:

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long walk though

r

adaptor? Electromagnetic ballasts run hot.

yes

ng

NT

Reply to
tabbypurr

starters operate by heat, the starting current heats the bimetallic contacts until they open, and then a gas discharge keeps them

--
  \_(?)_
Reply to
Jasen Betts

so he wanted to sell you something

" ouch. 1/10th the price:

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long walk though "

Eh that don't count, it says 50+.

So that would be:

50x0,22 = 11 pounds which would be 14 euros.

(Excluding delivery costs ! ;))

So with 4 euros I am off cheaply for now ! ;) =D

Bye, Skybuck.

Reply to
Skybuck Flying

5

NT

Reply to
tabbypurr

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