Greeks invented logic?

Likely the best choice, but Obama wants what's behind door #2.

Yep. The problem in your country and ours is that when the government borrows money, the collateral promised is ... the country.

Hey, we're putting into the IMF bailout(*)--save us some grapes.

(*) borrowed money, naturally, not our own.

James Arthur

This is interesting,

especially Merkel's wonderful line ?a battle of the politicians against the markets... I am determined to win.? Wow.

If, as you suggest, Greece were just to disavow the debt, what's to keep the crisis from reappearing, much worse, in a few years time? The southern european countries can't keep consuming more than they produce; Germany and France will get tired of paying for it.

In Greece one-third of all workers are employed by the government.

John

Interesting. Last time I checked the Greek weren't communists :-)

Are you getting tired of getting $0.78 of Fed spending for every $1 in Fed tax, while North Dakota gets $1.68? (2005 numbers).

Of course these days probably every state gets $2-$4 in war+ecomonmic stimulus Federal spending for every dollar of tax, so everyone should be happy.

And they apparently have an active Communist party, with a couple dozen seats in the Parliament (less than 10%). Socialism is probably centrist there, at best.

Best regards, Spehro Pefhany

North Dakota is pretty small, so that's no big deal. Some states are poor, like Mississippi, so it would figure that they might get more benefits than they pay in taxes. What Greece apparently did was borrow heavily on their own account, spend the money, hide the borrowing, and ratchet down productivity.

It's just borrowing to spend and consume; Federal money is our money. It's inherently inefficient and not sustainable, as the european situation isn't sustainable. Macroeconomic blather can't hide the basics: you can't longterm consume more than you make unless you can find someone to steal from.

The problem worldwide is: too much government. The next 10-15 years should be interesting, as the steady growth of governments collides with reality. That intersection is happening a lot sooner in Greece, and they will have to deal with reduced expectations... and they don't seem very happy about that.

John

It's perverse--the writer, and those politicians all have no idea, only the conviction that loaning money will fix it. So, to lift them out of debt, the EU's making Greece (another) subprime loan.

It won't work, of course. That just puts Greece further in debt. Chance of success =3D zero.

AFAICT Greece should default--that's in their interest--and renegotiate terms. And, the people who loaned them money will and should lose it--part, or all. That's the chance you take in loaning money to someone you shouldn't. Maybe in the future you'll think twice.

Greece's problem is their economic theory doesn't produce the benefits they promise--it's hard to make people richer with their own money; redistribution is a less-than-zero sum game. So they borrow to substitute the illusion. They can dodge the reaper borrowing for a time, but eventually they run out of other people's money. It's a Ponzi scheme, and it cannot but collapse.

And then, of course, they blame. Merkel echos Obama here--markets, the loaners, the moneylenders (i.e. the people) are the enemy de jure.

As in Soviet Russia, as in Orwell's 1984, as in Rand's Atlas Shrugged, as in Chavez's Venezuela or Mugabe's Zimbabwe, economic failures are never the ruler's, but from greedy elements within: sabotage. Blame bankers, doctors, bondholders, insurance companies, Wall Street, whatever, never the king.

Nothing at all prevents that, unless Greece's citizens reign[sic] in their own government.

Ditto the US, for the same reasons. That's why the Democrats' unbelievable spending is so distressing. And it's dangerous.

James Arthur

And get to work.

John

Striking's more fun.

I'm doing loads and loads of paperwork--I'd much rather strike too.

-- Cheers, James Arthur

How about beating and burning bankers?