FUD Electric farm tractors and combines (2023 Update)

One of the easiest ways of making money (though capital intensive) is with natural resources; you never have to replenish them!

Sort of like making a product and never having to purchase the components!

I think the whole world is going to start finding water to be an "issue".

I dug out my copy of the Last Whole Earth Catalog and the recipe is accurate with the exception of the original specifying ground roasted soybeans. There is also a suggestion to grind the flax seeds or chew really well.

It was $5, which the handy inflation calculator says would be $35 today.

Yeah, she isn't fond of flax seeds. And, there's a lot of "crunchies" in that Rx; I'd be wary of venturing that far from what she is known to like. That would just mean more "failed iterations" as I tried to refine "don't like" into "like a lot".

She prefers the sweetness of maple syrup over honey; coconut is too strong a flavor to compete with the maple syrup subtlety; etc. I suspect I'll also need to add maple extract as I can't imagine you'd want it too "wet" prior to baking (the result of using "too much" maple syrup)

She doesn't like granola! I bought her some of this stuff from TJs a while back looking to give her some variety in her breakfasts, knowing the sorts of flavors she likes. She liked it so I started buying it regularly.

Then, true to form, TJs changed it (not just the packaging but, also, the ingredients -- you're not expected to have an "old item" lying around that you can compare against! :> ) She tried one helping and it was back to TJ's "returns" counter with the rest of the package.

[I really don't know why we shop at TJs as anything she ends up liking gets reworked or canceled -- leading to a search for an alternate supplier, etc. Sometimes, you get lucky and discover TJ's is just house-branding some other manufacturer's product (so, identify the manufacturer, product and retailer that sells it!)]

I wish I'd bought two (or twenty?) of these, ~50 years ago:

Mine is "breaking" (the signatures "break" due to the type of paper used) -- I'd wish I had another in pristine condition (just for myself!)

We looked at no fewer than 20 different granola products, today. She, of course, wasn't keen on ANY of them (to be fair, none of them had the same flavorings/ingredients as the TJ offering prior to its being "reworked").

Doesn't look all that difficult to make. But, getting the right proportions of flavors will be an iterative solution. Annoyingly iterative (I don't eat the stuff so can't even "taste test" for my own opinion). The fact that she doesn't consume it very quickly means I will have to learn how to make *tiny* batches that we can evaluate quickly and move on to the next turn of the crank.

First batch (I only made a cup or so EXPECTING it to "have problems") met with mixed reviews. I opted to add a hint of cinnamon but the maple syrup we currently have (pancakes) isn't strong enough to overcome that flavor. So, either 86 the cinnamon or find a better source of maple syrup!

[We had bought some a few years back that was exquisite! But, attempts to find a similar product from the same vendor have been unsuccessful.]

Writer John Hinderaker claims an EV future is impossible due to a lack of copper among other things.

He cite Professor Simon Michaux from Finland. I copied this from a Duck Duck Go search. Michaux has at least one piece of paper saying he's knowledgeable. "7 days agoHolding a Bachelor of Applied Science degree in Physics and Geology and a PhD in Mining Engineering from the University of Queensland, Simon has extensive experience in mining research and development, circular economic principles, industrial recycling, and mineral intelligence." I don't have the faintest idea if the Professor knows what he's talking about.

That could take things back to the late 1950s or 60s when farmers used corn pickers. Farmers had to haul the complete ear to corn cribs. The shelling was done later when the grain was taken into town. The cobs and some of the shucks ended up in piles that were burned.

Ethanol was seen as another use for the crop. Corn doesn't lose feed value after it's processed for ethanol.

From the article: "

Here's a video of corn shelling.

. Harvesting corn in the ear had one advantage if I recall correctly. It could be picked at a higher moisture content which meant earlier than with a combine. Avoiding drying costs was the reason to wait when combining. From memory corn could be stored at around 25% moisture if picked but needed to be around 15% if combined.

There's nothing to say you can't perform that job on the farm, just in a different way than "in the combine".

The goal has been to lower labor costs/body counts. We have robots building cars; they can't learn to shuck corn?

And, if energy is suddenly priced at it's actual value, one might decide that corn isn't the most efficient way of "growing calories" for human consumption. (There's already some groaning about meat)

If you're phasing out ICE's you can phase out the 25% of your corn production that had previously been (subsidized!) devoted to that market.

See? The problem gets simpler, the more you look at it (tongue firmly planted in cheek)

I've seen varying assessments as to the availability of *accessible* natural resources for EVs (wiring, batteries, etc.).

I've already stated that I don't think *battery* electric vehicles are a long-term solution; as we see this first crop of EVs "exhaust" their batteries and the cost to consumers for their replacement/refurbishing, there will likely be an "adjustment" of expectations.

And, as tax structures catch up to EVs, in general (no "gas tax" yet they still use the roadways; it will be amusing to watch to see how the pols rationalize an "emissions test" -- fee! -- for EVs as ICEs are phased out), some of the economics will get murkier.

What needs to happen is a rethink of how energy is used/misused.

I think covid has shown people that a lot of "work" can be done without the cost of a commute. And, product (e.g., grocery) deliveries can eliminate the need for inefficient trips to the store (a business that delivers will likely invest in more efficient delivery means than a private individual who never really *sees* the cost of that trip to the store).

Finally, there may be a move towards more integrated "settlements" instead of inner city + suburbs. Keeping people and their needs closer together. Amazing how most college students can live without a vehicle for several years -- because their worlds are more highly integrated. Yet, they still have to eat, go to class ("work"), recreate, etc.

On 2022-09-12 03:28, Don Y wrote: [...]

Ah? What alternative do we have?

Jeroen Belleman

Mostly John Larkin level claims that they will need more of particular elements than we mine at the moment, and there won't be other places that we can mine them. I'm looking forward to doped bucky-tubes replacing copper sometime soon.

As if batteries aren't going to get better, cheaper and longer-lived as we build more of them.

The likeliest solution is that all roads will become toll roads - we've now got the technology to do that cheaply - and every vehicle will be slugged with a charge to cover the damage it does to the road. My car already has a transponder that is recognised by tolling points as it drives through them - most big cities require them.

Of course the trip to store does tell you what is on the shelf and how much it costs versus the available alternatives.

That's why suburbs have sub-urban shopping centres.

Good public transport is remarkably effective. I don't use my car very much at all.

Dealer prices for replacement car parts must average 30:1 markup over their cost. I just got a silly wiring harness for $300.

I assume they want to make money on batteries too, and you won't be able to pick up a set of EV batteries at Bob's Auto.

Battery replacement cost will be interesting long-term. You can rebuild an engine or a tranny but not a lithium battery.

If you include fuel cells, none.

You probably will. Battery packs are conceptually a whole lot simpler than regular car parts. You put current in until the output voltage tells you that the battery is charged, then you take it out again until the battery voltage tells you that it is flat.

It will probably include temperature sensors, but they aren't complicated. Bob may have to salvage the plug that interfaces the battey pack to the rest of the car, but that (and any electronics built into it) won't wear out in use.

Why not? A lithium battery pack is just a collection of individual cells.

You'll wind up doing a lot more transporting. A combine leaves the waste on the field to be plowed under. With your system you'd need to bring the high volume of the unprocessed matter to a central location, bring it back to the fields after extracting the grain, and distribute it uniformly.

If the alternative is NOT to harvest, there will be a means found to do this!

A second device could follow the harvester in much the same way that a grain car does for some crops.

Or, someone will figure out a use for the "refuse".

Or, someone will decide that corn isn't an efficient crop to grow/harvest.

Or...

Thinking you can imagine the ultimate solution without numeric constraints on the problem is an exercise in futility; WHEN the problem appears, a solution will manifest!

You might be surprised how many uses there are for it. "Plastics aren’t entirely made up of synthetic substances – in fact, corn-based plastics have become very popular in recent years as companies strive to find methods for reducing the environmental impact of plastics. Corn-based plastics use up to 68% less fossil fuels in production than traditional plastics, and are estimated to emit 55% less greenhouse gases. Additionally, many of these plastics are also biodegradable. You’ll find corn plastics used in food containers and plastic food packaging, disposable dishware and gift cards." From:

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That's *your* price.

The parts guy recognizes you, and silly wiring harnesses are $300 for a chump who will pay $400 for the battery.

Yes, but I suspect "other uses" don't have the same "edibility" criteria that goes with corn grown as a foodstuff.

Is time of harvest as critical ("running 24 hours a day for 10-12 days)? Moisture content? Cosmetics? Pest infestation? etc.

I.e., you have different criteria as to what you are producing which can lead to different solutions for harvest. Is corn for popping grown the same way as sweet corn? Corn consumed by livestock? etc.

The whole point of this thread has been that you can't rely on a solution arrived at under one set of criteria to be optimal or even efficient under another set. "Complaining" that "going electric" is folly... is folly! :>