FUD Electric farm tractors and combines (2023 Update)

For that sort of operation, the dead battery would gets swapped with a charged battery, which can be shipped around on the back of a track.

John Dere would be able to think of that even if some brain dead fossil fuel propaganda creep couldn't.

They do seem to have got you pegged.

It's totally made up & passed along (including by you) until it's viral. See:

The article is a complete fabrication on many counts but there is one valid point. Road construction, large scale farming operations, lumbering and so forth have fuel/lube trucks that refuel the equipment on site. You don't drive a skidder down to the Exxon station to fuel it.

Apropos. I went down to the fair the adjacent county and watched the tractor pulls for a while. A '54 John Deere 60 didn't do too bad considering. When I lived in New Hampshire horse and ox pulling was popular at the fairs and a lot more interesting. They aren't just for show either.

Jon Tester is a bit of an oddity in DC as he knows what a tractor looks like. He's an old school Democrat and not too bad. He's up in 2024 so we'll see how that goes. Distancing himself from Biden would be good.

This is a cool book.

It shows me how amazingly complex and productive civilization is now, and how easy it is for morons to break it and kill maybe billions of people.

A bunch of the world runs on diesel oil and ammonia.

Wow! ya think? Was there something in MY post that led you to think

Sadly, it would have been pretty impractical to discuss without including the text. (feel free to rewrite my original post WITHOUT "passing along" that content)

The point of my post was the utter disregard for critical thought in the minds of the recipients. "Accept ALL of this as TRUE. Do not question it. Do not identify obvious flaws in the presentation. Do not consider alternatives that could address these issues."

It would be akin to compiling a list of *documented* events from the Trump presidency (his meeting with Putin wherein the US translator was removed from the room, the Mueller investigation, etc.) and pointing to the presence of classified documents at his home/office and concluding that he was a RUSSIAN SPY!

There's nothing that says a combine needs to cut a 40 ft swath -- except that a SINGLE DRIVER can get more done, that way (but, if machines were driving, the number of such drivers wouldn't be limited!).

Or, that all of the processing done in the combine needs to happen in a single vehicle.

Or, that the energy source needs to be *in* the combine.

Or, that we should be growing that much *corn* (if ICE goes away, 25% of corn crops do as well); after all, the goal is to grow calories!

When petroleum products were introduced to the farm, you didn't see farmers setting up oil wells and refineries on their property (though it was common on farms, back home, to have many thousand gallon fuel tanks on hand). Yet, somehow, fuel availability wasn't a problem (so why would you think electric

They didn't drive their tractors all the way "into town" to purchase more fuel (you can move energy without having to move the device that consumes it) so why do you think they'd have to drive an EV "back to the shop" to charge?

Gee, a guy can afford several million dollar combines -- that he "trades in" every three years -- yet he can't come up with a better way of keeping them in service? It must be tough to be poor!

That just means an ENERGY source has to be present proximate to its use.

Yeah, we used to have them at the local "town fair" -- the "loads" were skids with various amounts of concrete blocks onboard. It looked kind of cruel as there was no *purpose* being served by the efforts.

Yet, they still manage to use this sort of equipment! Imagine that! :>

There are always bumps in new technologies/business practices. Especially when a radical paradigm shift comes into play.

But, if the idea makes sense (or, has enough "backing") the market adapts. Just as horse-drawn plows gave way to diesel tractors!

It used to be costly to put an NIC in a device -- hence the reason you saw so many serial port protocols and contorted ways of exchanging data between devices. Now, the cost of the NIC is down in the noise and the associated stack costs along with it.

Computers *in* cars? Software updates *for* cars? <shudder>

It uses eight big lead-acid batteries that cost around $400 each.

They could just use a big/long extension cord ! :)

I would probably run over my own cord though.

boB

So there will be charging stations in the middle of the field? Unless Tesla's pipe dreams become a reality moving electrical energy around requires physical infrastructure.

And how will that come to pass?

That's what horses do. I found the difference between horses and oxen interesting. The horse teams come out with their fancy harnesses and prance around. The hard part is getting them hitched to the stone boat. Once hitched they pull for a distance and stall out. After collecting themselves, they make it a little further before giving it up.

The ox teams come out in their utilitarian yokes, and calmly back up to be hitched. Then they drag the boat as far as they can and they're finished. There's no short spurts, when they're done they're done.

The pulling at the New Hampshire state fair ran long enough one evening that the fireworks show started. That really got the horses ramped up while the oxen stood around waiting to go to work.

Think of it like going to the gym. Deadlifts never accomplished anything useful.

Until it breaks down... I went out one morning and the DR650 wouldn't start. Some diagnostics showed the ECU died. There is no work around; find one on eBay, wait for it to be delivered, and replace the unit. That's for a bike that still has a relatively primitive carbureted engine.

The real problem in this case is not the technology as much as John Deere's stand that you never own the technology, you're just using it. They took a page out of Apple's book.

Hopefully the Gator uses more or less standard golf cart / fork lift batteries but it's still a chunk of change.

India and other countries faced famine in the '60s. The 'Green Revolution' save the day. otoh, look at the population of India in 1970 versus 2022. Is there another rabbit in the hat that doesn't depend of chemical fertilizers, pesticides, and heavy irrigation?

Norman Borlaug saved the day -- or did he just kick the can down the road?

That's why the put those 12" cords on electric lawnmowers, hedge clippers, and chainsaws. At least you'll only have to replace the extension cord.

One dream is to invent insect-resistant grain crops that have nitrogen-fixing bacteria in their roots. Some day maybe.

Paul Ehrlich thought that it was useless to help the poor in India; let'em die.

If you think about it, most farmland (for crops like corn, wheat, etc.) is "wide open space". And, largely clean soil (no large rocks, tree stumps, etc. to navigate) -- cultivated.

And, the crops tend to be planted in regular rows.

So, the equipment that services those crops could exploit these facts and rely on infrastructure imposed *in* the fields in much the same way that a subway's or trolley's constrained travel path allows power to be delivered *to* the load (instead of carried *in* the load)

Or, the requirement to carry the harvested crop *in* the combine can be eased and moved to a "tender" so that the physical load can be reduced. And, the tender can return the harvested crop to the "collection point" without the "harvester" leaving its job.

Or, the tender can carry the battery for the harvester so that a new battery can replace the existing one as it nears depletion (the discharged battery returning to a service station autonomously).

I.e., you're not stuck with the existing models when you adopt a new technology -- especially if you are "trading in" your equipment "every three years"...

Why does it have to be in the middle of the field? Does a helicopter come and retrieve the harvested crop "from the middle of the field"? Teleporter?

Why can't the energy source have its own form of locomotion? Or, be "infrastructure"? (see reply to Bob)

Personally, I think (chemical) battery powered electrics are just a transitional technology. Wait 10 years and see how many owners are complaining about the cost/hassle of replacing their no-longer-new batteries -- and the environmental costs that may accompany that.

So, you think it's *practice* for the horses? "Let's add another 500 pounds and see which teams can cut the mustard..."

You (and the farmers) don't have to avail yourself of the advantages that these technologies offer. You can use a horse-drawn plow. Or, an old carbureted tractor. Or, install windmills on your property.

That's the future of everything. You *rent* music, never *own* an album. You *rent* access to Photoshop. Or MSOffice. Or...

There are folks who rent (lease) vehicles.

I know a company that sells *chipped* vials of distilled water for their instrument. Don't wanna buy their water? Fine! Stop using the instrument!

The trick is to find someone that serves your needs (whatever those may be) at a price that you can "tolerate". Or, find an alternative solution.

If you have the product sought, then you can largely dictate your terms. Until someone comes up with an alternative.

Not a popular decision. A parable, or something. I was raised in upstate New York. Just about every winter the Times Union would run photos of deer yarded up in the deep snow and starving in the outdoors section. This would inspire caring people to organize hay drops. The next year there would be more deer yarded up and starving. Rinse and repeat.

It got to the point that what was then called the Conservation Department was pleading with people to go out during hunting season and harvest the deer. I left the state 50 years ago but if anything the problem has gotten worse.

You choose to believe that one paragraph in a work of fiction?

Overall, I'd say trading in your equipment every three years has the same odor and consistency as the rest of the bullshit in that article.

No. I'm poking fun at the original email. It obviously wants to PRETEND to be factual. So, I can use its "facts" in my counterargument. Let the original author dispute my alternatives without contradicting any of the "truths" he's claimed to have set out!

Yeah, one of the car companies claims X% of their cars are still on the road

Yup. You'll note that I labeled it as such in my first sentence! :>

Prosperous and educated human populations limit their own birth rates. Deer don't do that.