Flexibility of hours for EEs

My last job was like that. But was pretty much 'kept out the back', so didn't have much in the way of client exposure. (Just the way I like it).

Non of my other employers were like this, so I'm thinking it was an exception to the rule rather than the norm. I'm in Australia BTW, so I don't know if the "norm" is different for your area.

That would depend. If the person/people are the not people you're going to be working with, then it might certainly not be the case. It was like that with me with at least several jobs for me, where the HR people did the interviewing who were stuck up weirdos, unlike the people I actually had to work with, which were fairly laid back. Sometimes it's the other way around.

Take notes while they give you the walkaround.

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Linux Registered User # 302622

That's the way we work, although it's suggested that people show up by

9:30 maybe. We rarely see customers, and when we do people tend to wear shirts that have actual buttons, but that's still voluntary.

I walk around in my sox sometimes. Ties are not allowed on site.

Engineers and programmers tend to not be morning people, whereas the production people do.

John

That's what it was like most of my career. I last wore a suit or tie in about '76 when the AC unit failed in the main plant (we were a couple of miles away). The dress code was relaxed and I never went back. ;-)

Before that, the dress code was suit and tie. Even (especially) service techs had to wear blue shirts and suits. Since then the dress code went from "business dress" to "casual Fridays" to "business casual", to jeans/shorts/t's, some pretty ratty. I never went beyond long sleeved shirts and slacks (no different on weekends). Most of the women dressed better though.

I don't know how typical it is, but there is little reason for an EE working in the back room to dress to the nines. Some cultures are different though.

Interviewers are typically management (or HR types) and a bit more "tight". They have to make it look good for their bosses. Galley slaves don't often wear tuxes. ;-)

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  Keith

Nothing wrong with that. Send something to production at the end of your day and have the prototype waiting when you get in, the following afternoon. ;-)

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Michael A. Terrell
Central Florida

The crucial rule is this: Never work for any company that draws too fine a line between the casual dress days and the clothing optional ones.

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I had a newly minted EE working for me a few years back. He never came in before 10:00 (usually noon), which pissed off the boss plenty (department meetings tended to be at 9:00AM). He was still there at midnight though. It worked out very well for exactly the reason you give; he was building a system simulator for the widget I was building. In the evening he would extend the simulator and leave a list of "issues" that cropped up between the simulator and real hardware and I'd work through them the next morning. In the afternoon we went through them to make sure we agreed on the problem and the fix.

One Friday afternoon, about 5:00 the boss was there when the inevitable call came in from the system test floor (they never got around to us until Fridays). I told Doug, "handle it, I've got a beer waiting for me". The boss said "Now I know why you've been defending Doug!". Well, yeah! ;-) In reality, it worked quite well. With only one set of hardware we had two shifts of work being done. We also had two shifts of coverage, in case there were problems in systems test or manufacturing.

If at all possible, flexible schedules work out for everyone.

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  Keith

Hmm, in 32 years, we never had a "clothing optional" day, quite fortunately!

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  Keith

Yes, these days it's fairly typical. However, don't confuse casual with slack. You're always being watched in terms of the things that matter, like being around when it's needed even if you have to stretch things a bit, hanging in when the going gets tough, keeping your head under pressure, representing your employer in a consistent manner, being keen to learn. The things that will determine how your career goes aren't the stuff they write on your annual assessment, but the quality of the professional relationships you build with the people around you.

In one company, I worked 1/4 of the time from home. I'd start around 10am to 11am and work until it wasn't fun anymore. That would be anywhere between 3pm to 11pm. If I'm on a roll, I keep going.. I'd have pizza sent to the office. If I'm getting beat up on a problem and little progress is happened..I'd go kayaking.

.....There was alot of kayaking :) D from BC

That is the norm here in Australia. I can even work from home via VPN if I want. A lot of people at my company walk around bare feet!

The majority of companies will try to appear as formal as possible during an interview, so it's hard to get a feel for the place from just the interview. After you work in a place for a few weeks you'll find that most things are pretty flexible.

Dave.

For software dev I take it? Can't do that with hardware, it was brought up some time back, and while the cost of freight back and forth is doable. However, the cost of duplicating test equipment was prohibitive.

I did that for a bit, but were kept being reminded of the OH&S issues.

You can get an idea from the walk around, perhaps be a bit ballsey and talk to people. The general "aura" of how people are will give you an idea of what it's like. If they're ALL grumpy, there's a reason for it. A reason you probably don't want to find out.

It depends, I've worked in some places where the start/stop times are fixed and inflexible. And likewise in other places where they are flexible. But you can't give a general "this is the way it is", you really don't know what a place is going to be like till you ask.

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Linux Registered User # 302622

Yeah, and PCB design, firmware and other general day-to-day stuff, although my single CRT at home isn't quite as good as the 30"+2x20" LCD monitors at work. And work has free food too, all-you-can-eat breakfast, lunch, and dinner.

Hardware is easy too if you can just carry it and any required test gear home with you. Although I've worked on stuff where the hardware product is 150m long, so that's kinda hard to fit in my workshop at home =:->

Yep. I hate it when some companies don't take you for a walk-around, even when asked, the alarm bells start ringing then.

Or take a risk and work there... I know companies that just blatantly lie in interviews too, they happily tell you want you want to hear. So it's often better not to lead them on with direct questions like "Do you have flexible hours?" etc.

Dave.

It depends.

1. From the business standpoint, it is obviously more convenient for the company to have you at work from 7 till 5 and wearing the appropriate dress. Thus you should consider the casual dress and flexible hours as a form of a benefit. But nobody gives benefits for free. So, if they allow you something like that, they are planning to make you work hard for it, and the other benefits and rewards are likely to be smaller.

1. There are formal rules, and there are the informal rules also. What is allowed to the senior engineer is not tolerable from the freshman right from the college.

2. The important thing for making the career is the old good ass licking. That means you have to be at work earlier then the boss, and you can go home only after the boss. It doesn't matter if John Larkin is walking around the office naked wearing only socks, your dress should be always neat and clean.

Vladimir Vassilevsky DSP and Mixed signal Consultant

An enlightened company will understand that ceding some "authority" to the employee improves both productivity and production. One will voluntarily work harder if it's made more enjoyable. They have understood that even paid vacations are a positive, for both the employee and employer. Some even have concierge services for employees to lighten the "personal" load so they can concentrate on the business workload.

...and verse visa. Often the "senior engineers" are more political and meet with executives and customers, while the more junior engineers work unseen in the "back room".

Bullshit.

Need & clean "ass licking". No one should go outside their home dirty and looking like a slob.

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  Keith

Why are either a convenience to the company? What I want from engineers are brilliant and first-time-correct designs, no matter how or when they do it.

Ludicrous. Companies punish employees for not wearing ties? Employees punish employers by leaving for new jobs at places that appreciate them.

Ditto ludicrous. If anything, dress expectations are lower for junior staff members, because they have less contact with customers, vendors, and higher management.

Not where I work. I'm usually last-in and last-out.

I wear jeans and a t-shirt most of the time, with minor adjustments for ambient temperature. The trappings are illusions of professionalism for people who can't get the electronics right.

John

Stepping on a pins-up DIP16, or getting a solder splash stuck to the top of one's foot, is educational.

John

I've done both ;-)

...Jim Thompson

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|  James E.Thompson, P.E.                           |    mens     |
|  Analog Innovations, Inc.                         |     et      |
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When many people have to work together, they do have to adhere to the common rules for everybody. The adherence is more important then the individuality.

There is a niche of a tiny one man designs which are enough simple to be correct from the first time. Big projects are done by big hives and the rules of a hive apply.

Yes. Indeed big companies punish employess for not wearing personal tags and the shirts of the proper color, and the other crap like that.

But they will have to work their asses there, and the benefits are going to be miserable compared to what the big companies do. So it is a question of the personal preference.

The point I am trying to make the work rules can be very different and there are the tradeoffs on the either side.

Do you know many people who can really get the electronics right?

Vladimir Vassilevsky

DSP and Mixed Signal Design Consultant

Me too! And I just learned to not try to mold hot-melt glue with my finger.

John