Jul 12, 2026 Last reply: 25 minutes ago 122 Replies
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Bill Sloman
Only if the theory you have in mind is grossly simplified down to John Larkin levels. Real capacitors have real - if small - internal resistances, as do the devices that drive them. In real life the energy used to charge a capacitor is drawn from a power rail, and the charge ends up dumped into a different power rail (sometimes the ground rail).
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J
john larkin
Right. Most Pockels Cell divers pull the capacitive load up, from a supply rail, with a mosfet, and later discharge it with another mosfet. Some use four fets in an h-bridge.
But the charge energy is wasted. The ohmic driver dissipates
0.5 * C * V^2
charging the cap, and the same amount is dissipated in the discharge fet. So that's
C * V^2
lost every shot, for a driver power dissipation of
F*C*V^2.
All for doing no work.
There's a reason that elevators have counterweights.
John Larkin Highland Tech Glen Canyon Design Center Lunatic Fringe Electronics
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Gerhard Hoffmann
Am 14.07.26 um 17:18 schrieb john larkin:
We did it with 5 ps resolution between a ground based laser station in Bavaria (Wettzell) and the ISS to measure the photon flight time. I did the SPAD interface, the ps/ns time stretcher and the analog part of syncing the local Pharao Cesium reference and a hydrogen maser for better phase noise.
Yes, the ISS is a moving target and 400 km away when it happens to be just over one's head.
from google ai: PHARAO (Projet d'Horloge Atomique par Refroidissement d'Atomes en Orbite) is the first caesium cold-atom clock to orbit Earth. Launched to the International Space Station (ISS) on April 21, 2025, it is accurate to about 1 part in 10¹⁶ and is expected to drift by no more than one second every 300 million years.Developed by the French space agency CNES, PHARAO is the core of the European Space Agency's ACES (Atomic Clock Ensemble in Space) mission mounted outside the ISS Columbus module. It operates by using lasers to cool caesium atoms to absolute zero (–273°C), bringing them to a near standstill.In the microgravity environment of space, these ultra-cold atoms are in free fall, allowing for the most precise timekeeping ever achieved and enabling scientists to test Albert Einstein’s theory of general relativity with unprecedented accuracy
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You might want to read about two way time transfer. <
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cheers, Gerhard
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Lasse Langwadt
could have avoided all the complication if marketing had just said no to the nonsensical request ....
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Edward Rawde
The synchronisation problem has likely been known about since before semiconductors.
Claiming that you can avoid it if you try hard enough is just insane.
Anyone who has ever looked at a computer's motherboard knows that almost any digital system of any complexity has multiple clock domains.
Most people see no reason to care. Some may have read information such as this:
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most are likely to be unaware of this issue because it has never caused an issue for them.
Based on your performance here, you aren't all that well-equipped to ask these kinds of questions or understand the answers you might get. You don't seem to be able to learn either.
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Bill Sloman
The piano action evolved over an appreciable period, and there was prolonged debate between the people who built them and the people who played them.
Marketing is neither. They don't have to be able to use the toys they sell, and they certainly can't design them.
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Bill Sloman
There isn't just one "synchronisation problem"
You don't so much avoid it as reframe it in a way that is easier to solve. It's called system design.
Depending on what you mean by "multiple clock domains".
If you can meet set-up and hold-time specifications, you won't run into metastability problems. I never did. It didn't stop me from being aware of the issue.
Edward Rawde capacity to appreciate my performance here seems limited in much the same way as John Larkin's. He expects to be taken seriously, rarely deserves to be, and resents it whenever he isn't.
The Eward Rawde appreciation society does seem to be pretty small, and not all that active. He does seems to be the only member.
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Liz Tuddenham
[...] > The synchronisation problem has likely been known about since
Very early computers were so physically large that they used a transmission line ring main with circulating pulses to keep everything synchronised.
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Bill Sloman
The first Australian computer - CSIRAC - was a purely serial machine and used acoustic pulses running through a long mercury bath as it's main memory
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It ended up in the Physics Department at Melbourne University when I was a student there, and at one stage I had to take my computer cards to the CSIRAC room in the Physics Department to get picked up and taken off to an IBM computer across town to be run. CSIRAC had stopped being used in
1956 - well before my time - and we got own IBM 7040/44 at the university around 1965 - I used to run my programs on it from 2.00am to
6.00am when I was crunching the experimental results from my Ph.D. project (which had been collected with a PDP-8 that I'd had to program myself).
Synchronisation wasn't exactly a major thing. Processing was cyclic, but pretty slow by today's standards.
J
john larkin
Many old computers, including some DEC machines, were asynchronous kluges with no main clock anywhere.
The PDP-8I and the first PDP-11 were async horrors.
John Larkin Highland Tech Glen Canyon Design Center Lunatic Fringe Electronics
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Edward Rawde
Nope, this just shows your capacity for making things up.
None existent actually, just like the BS equivalent.
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Jeroen Belleman
Mercury delay lines weren't "baths". The mercury was contained in a tube with transducers at both ends. Mercury was used because its acoustic impedance was well matched to that of the transducers.
Jeroen Belleman
(Yes, it's 'its'.)
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Jeroen Belleman
Logic design in the 1960s was a mess, true enough, but aynchronous logic need not be. Every flip-flop is in fact a little asynchronous state machine. Every logic designer should try his hand at designing a clocked flip-flop from elementary gates at least once.
Jeroen Belleman
(Challenge: Design a divide-by-three using just gates.)
J
john
Nice.
We provided the master timing system for the NIF laser. There are a couple hundred VME modules scattered around the site, each with eight electrical or optical outputs. They are all programmable to 1 ps resolution with a few ps jitter. Each module receives a fiberoptic master timing signal.
But the clocks on different boards are certainly not phase aligned. The boards are small enough that they have a single 77 MHz clock locally.
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There's a paper
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Edward Rawde
An inverter and two SR latches I think.
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Jeroen Belleman
That's the shoot-from-the-hip approach, which suffers from a race condition. Try again.
Jeroen Belleman
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john
The old DEC machines had one-shots, RCs, and delay lines. They loved delay lines. It was popular to write programs that hung up the CPUs.
I think that a while back Intel tried to do an async CPU.
There is some sort of async logic that has a pass-thru path, "input ready" and "done" or something, so that every logic function can run as fast as it can and pass its output to the next block without wasting time waiting for a clock. Sounds nice in theory.
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wmartin
Of course it's !
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Bill Sloman
Edward Rawde has his own perception of his own performance. It's not all taht realistic.
As I went on to say. People have been known to post reactions to my posts that I have been happy with, but I do try to conceal my glee on the rare occasions that that happens.
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Bill Sloman
There was some kind of long linear structure in the remnants of CSIRAC that looked as if it was the residue of some kind of mercury delay line.
It wouldn't have been an open bath. Everybody was thoroughly conscious of the dangers of mercury vapour by then - I'd read about them in Stock's book on vacuum lines, but it was also inculcated in first year practical science classes. The pulp and paper mill where my father was research manager had it own mercury cell plant for making sodium hydroxide by electrolysing brine, so I'd got it early on.
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