EU outlaws incandescent bulbs by 2012

Politically correct speak for impotent... or no woman will have him ?:-)

Doesn't sound like Rich has any to protect... certainly no family jewels ;-)

...Jim Thompson

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| James E.Thompson, P.E.                           |    mens     |
| Analog Innovations, Inc.                         |     et      |
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 I love to cook with wine     Sometimes I even put it in the food

The whole reason people join together in groups and start imposing rules on themselves is to reduce the average "harshness" of their living conditions... the rich guy gives up some money so that the poor kids can be sent to school, become literate, and (hopefully) better society, whereas the poor guys agree that they won't go and just rob the rich guy at gun point, so the rich guy doesn't have to pay for a private security force.

Granted, most people demand a very high payback for giving up even a very small amounts of freedom, and this is how it should be. Sometimes that payback is in dollars -- such as paying for the interstate with tax dollars, whereas other times that payback is just in "psychic income" (knowing that, morally, we did the right thing) -- such as providing social security/worker's comp for the disabled.

At what point would you figure it's better to just leave the US rather than attempting to repair it? Assume for the sake of discussion that any other country on the planet will grant you citizenship. At what point do you figure the US started needing repair anyway? 1781? 1865? 1913 (beginning of property taxes)?

I want to repair the U.S. as well, although I don't think it's nearly as broken as I believe you do. :-)

---Joel

The usual filament failure for fluorescents is depletion of the thermionically emissive coating. That does indeed experience extra wear during starting, from the filament being forced to have electrons dislodged from it when it is not yet at a temperature where it lets go of electrons easily.

CFLs that take a fraction of a second to a second to preheat the filaments have less of this problem. Ones that start instantly have more per-start filament wear. Old type ones with glow switch starters are even worse with starting-related wear, due to multiple starting attempts before it gets going.

- Don Klipstein ( snipped-for-privacy@misty.com)

I think they screwed up the numbers a little - they say higher up in the same PDF that CFLs on average have 4 mg of mercury.

However, I do agree that CFLs on average actually reduce mercury pollution compared to incandescents. To make things even better, dispose of dead CFLs in ways recommended for your location in

- Don Klipstein ( snipped-for-privacy@misty.com)

If the ban is like the one upcoming for the USA, incandescents for the above applications will be exempt.

- Don Klipstein ( snipped-for-privacy@misty.com)

Thanks Don. My CFLs light very quickly, maybe 500mS, FWIW, then reach full brightness as they warm up.

Cheers, James Arthur

On what planet is this actually the case? "The rich guy gives up some money..."

You're a fool.

Thanks, Rich

The wealthiest Americans pay the bulk of the taxes in the U.S. Yes, there are loopholes ane inequities and we could debate all day what marginal tax rates ought to be, but with very few exceptions, if you're making $250,000 a year, you're paying a lot more in taxes than a guy making $25,000.

Ignorance is bliss?

---Joel

The rule is for mains lighting, but I think it is premature at best, stupid at worst.

1) Most domestic bulbs will be replaced by florescents ... which contain Mercury. 2) The inefficiency of incendescents is heat ... which is usually useful anyway. OK, it is an inefficient way of heating, given the distribution network etc, but still ...

Until LED lighting comes WAY down in price so as to be viable for mainstream consumers, I think the whole thing is daft. Maybe the rule will have a major impact on that anyway ?

What's going to happen is such rules will generate a vast black market.

Cheers! Rich