Electronic funds transfer in the US, stone age?

You don't get it. Online banking here does not require the bank to do anything other than provide the equipment to serve the functionality. I enter your info. I send the check. It is *MUCH* more likely that I would make a mistake than the bank. Even writing a check myself and putting it in the mail is more likely to screw up than online banking.

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Rick C

I've already explained how it works here. They use ACH transfers (same as used by ATM machines) for transfers to registered entities such as utilities, CC companies and other businesses. When paying smaller entities who are not registered including individuals, the bank, or more accurately, the online banking provider cuts a check and puts it in the mail.

I don't have anyone's bank account numbers and there is nothing to screw up that isn't the same as writing out a paper check. If your payee is listed in public records, the bank will ask, "we found this person, is that who you mean?" Then you have the option of using it as they found them or you can override that and enter it any way you want... same as with a paper check.

Once they are in your list of payees, you can send them money as much and as often as you like.

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Rick C

How many remember how to count the old currencies? How many shilling in a crown?

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Rick C

I can just about recall how to do computations in archaic British units ton, cwt, quarters, st, lb, oz, dram too as taught at primary school.

An old crown used to be colloquially called a dollar (or rather half a crown was half a dollar) back when the GBP/USD ratio was 4:1.

I was once fined a groat = 1/3 old shilling or 4d at university. An amount impossible to pay exactly in the decimal era.

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Regards, 
Martin Brown

You could always write a cheque using the fraction... I wonder what the bank would do with that?

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Rick C

Perhaps you can pay in peppercorns

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John Devereux

Your explanation was so unbelievable that even now I have trouble accepting that "online banking" transfers in the USA mostly involve printing out pieces of paper and mailing them to the recipient!

WTF can't the bank at least scan the thing and act on the scan (since KRW at least claims that US banks can cope with scans of cheques).

It is the same in the UK for major payees registered with the bank, but the system is also flexible enough to allow me to pay anyone who has a bank account with a participating bank (which is basically all of them).

Same here - the only difference is that you can add anyone at all who has a bank account to your list of payees and they get exactly the same near instant electronic transfer of funds as the big guys.

There are several telephone vishing "bank security" fraud scams based on tricking punters to transfer funds to fake "safety accounts" that exploit the speed of transfer and the fact that the person giving such instructions is personally liable for their actions. The text on the page includes a warning that the bank will never ask you to make such a transfer or to give away your security info.

Some even allow you to customise your home page with images or memorable phrases (that can only be seen once you have logged in).

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Regards, 
Martin Brown

You just can't understand can you? If you want to send it electronically to an entity that is not registered for ACH transfers, you would have to use a transfer service that is *OTHER* than bill pay. Bill pay is for paying bills. Most bills are from outfits that *ARE* registered and can accept the payments. If *YOU* want to send money to an arbitrary payee, they will send a paper check for you saving you the trouble of writing the check and mailing it.

Online billpay was never intended to be for sending money to arbitrary payees.

*IF* you have their bank account number which is something not often given out here.

Exactly....

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Rick C

Oh, so you are limiting "electronic funds transfer" to only corporations that issue bills. Thank you for clarifying that caveat.

Maybe not, but EFT (see topic's subject) /is/ used to send money to arbitrary payees, and more, in the 21st century.

And that's why you need to take precautions with EFT in

21st century systems.

A simple checksum would not catch "swapped digits", it would still add to the same sum. Only something which weights digits positionally would see a swap as an error.

Bank card codes are supposed to catch single typo and most transposed digits. There is still a >2% possibility with just a single Luhn check digit that a corrupted original number permed or typoed may still be valid. 09 vs 90 is its Achilles heel. See

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Regards, 
Martin Brown

Most checksum algorithms contain more than just addition, making "checksum" somewhat of a misnomer.

That's why they aren't called checksums. I'm pretty sure the term checksum only applies to simple... well, checksums.

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Rick C

Registered businesses can deposit checks by scanning them and individuals can deposit check by scanning (or taking a picture of) them. I don't believe I can send money to your account without a paper check, which you can then scan. There are *expensive* ways of doing this but it's outside of the normal banking networks.

Keeping things "off the books" also evades income and payroll taxes. Those are not trivial (a lot more than 10%).

VISA is a cosortium of banks. It's not a bank. It's member banks are the ones who issue the cards, make any loans, and service the accounts. Your card (and bills) will show the bank's name.

If the financial device is acceptable, it certainly is incompetence if they don't know hw to deal with it. When my wife worked in a bank, she had to know how to calculate the value and buy government bonds. It wasn't something that was done very often but she had to know how to do it without making the customer distrust the bank.

If the particular teller couldn't do the transaction, she should have discretely summoned help or transferred the customer to someone who knew that he was doing.

Try writing a check for $0.00 and see what happens. ;-)

"Tax fraud" is a BS excuse; that can be done independent of such regulations. The REAL reason is government CONTROL, period. Just think of that infamous frog in a pot of water, where the water is so slowly being warmed up more and more...