AZ independent engineer sues Arizona Board of Technical Registration

Outside of licensing we are engineers because we declare ourselves one and others acknowledge it with a paycheck. In the end we are only as good as others believe us to be.

That being said....I have not met that many non-degreed engineers that are into the theory all that deep.

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nt

I think this is more an issue of a governing/regulatory body getting a bit full of itself. They exist to regulate, so they regulate as much as humanl y possible, not at all unlike the science fiction stories where some robot/ satellite/(insert other technology here) goes runaway and starts overdoing the task it was built for.

The exception for the larger companies was included because they didn't wan t to full scale shut down anyone with a loud enough voice to be heard by th e board's bosses, the legislature.

I'm a bit surprised it has gotten this far without the legislature coming d own on the board. I like the idea that enforcement bodies are not allowed in AZ to make the rules they enforce. In MD the state has various rules fo r the road and have given the police the authority to make their own as wel l! One I know of is a load extending beyond the fenders is prohibited. No t a law, a police rule!

You'd think someone would sell clip on fender extensions!

The article at the link does not say if Greg has an engineering degree. While I am not a fan of state and local regulatory intrusion, if Greg were offering engineering services to the public, I would at least agree with su ch boards that he would need to be a Professional Engineer.

But that's not the case here, of course.

Greg is providing engineering services to companies, not members of the pub lic. At least some of his work is later-reviewed by engineers at UL, etc..

Is that the "core" of the regulatory over-reach? That someone who is not a "professional engineer", might be confused with s omeone who isn't, particularly in regard to offering engineering services t o the public? Or is it just an attempt by those who took and passed the PE exam to limit competition? Or something else?

Here's another one for you: In North Carolina, you can't have a company name that includes the word "En gineer" unless you actually have a PE on staff, (and maybe one of the princ iples has to be a PE?)

It's been 20+ years since that North Carolina thing was last on my radar, s o things might have changed since then. (?)

While I'm at it... I don't think you "technically" need a law degree to practice law. You just have to be accepted by the bar. (In most places.) Again, this is going back a ways, so don't hold me to it. But "legal" vs. "engineering" seem to have a lot of overlap in the current context, regarding the ability to practice.

Over here it's allowed if you tie a red rag to the protruding load.

Same here.

Pimpom wrote in news:yNJkG.555$ snipped-for-privacy@fx26.ams:

Depends on how far back it protrudes. Rearward protrusion laws cover it. Almost all require a bright flag (used to be worded as 'red') hanging on the rearmost tail of the protrusion(s).

Not allowed to have left side protrusions. Specific width past wheelbase spec. Right side has a max too.

Well..

I did some research this, it is trivially obvious that the state cannot commandeer words under the 1st amendment, that is, it free speech.

Its dated 1.2.2019, so it a recent development.

So... there is now no chance that N.C, if they still have that law, is going to be able to enforce it.

I don't see that there any chance that Greg Mills will lose with AZ because of this ruling.

I am still stunned though, that it has been like this for so long. The land of the free, being restricted in using a word....

-- Kevin Aylward

My undergraduate was not in an engineering field so as such I don't refer to myself as "engineer" professionally I use the term "hardware designer", in deference to the folks who went thru the degree program.

The fat lady hasn't sung yet. The federal courts don't cover the whole US. They are broken into districts. I'm pretty sure NC is not in the same district as Oregon and AZ might not be as well.

I recall where IRS cases would be decided differently in different districts and so the IRS would impose their rules one way here and another way there. That by itself seems to fit the definition of "arbitrary" which is not allowed in enforcing the law.

But I've taken EM and quantum mechanics classes at the university level (as an adult-ed student) and did well at those; how many working software engineers have taken a quantum mechanics or functional analysis/Fourier transform applications course. but they call themselves "software engineers." So, y'know.

engineer" and the use of the phrase 'I am an engineer' in his letter were enough to "create violations.""

LOL violations of what, some state board of do-nothings by-laws? The whole case was absurd and should have been dismissed with prejudice the first time, piss off.

effectiveness amounts to practicing engineering without a license."

Ya, I guess the guy down the street who put a wing-spoiler on his 2002 Civic is practicing "engineering without a license", too. Go harass him!

America is full of petty tyrants both left and right who don't do s*it but want to control what ppl say and do. Like homeonwer's associations, middle-school PTAs, and Tipper Gore and our president for example

Here's a musical interlude for Tipper Gore

Or, acknowledge with membership in an association, like IEEE. Otherwise, its "yestrday i coul'tn spell enigneer. now i are 1!

Yeah, smells like rent seeking. But not much different from requiring barbers or nail salon people to pass some test and get a license.

George H.

You only say that because you weren't around in the days when anyone could do nails and cut hair. Sometimes charlatans would do BOTH!!! They also sold cocaine for tooth pain and gave tape worms to lose weight. Dark days indeed!

Some of the same people did all the dentistry too. It's less than 100 years since that was professionalised.

Were the guilds (stonemason's, potters, joiners, etc) rent-seekers also? Or did they serve a valid social function of ensuring adequate training and skills?

I suspect that the answer is "both".

Ch

One of the ways you can confirm self interests at hand is when one of the requirements is to be "nominated" by an existing member in the club... I mean by one of the current professionals.

Becoming a surveyor around here is that way. You have to do an apprenticeship and be recommended. The apprenticeship provides cheap labor and the recommendation prevents too much competition.

That's the system used by the medieval craft guilds. 't'aint epicycle science. ;)

Cheers

Phil Hobbs