American Self-Reliance

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The Camp fire, a little north of here, is the deadliest fire in California since 1933. But the population is over 5x what it was in

We have a cabin in the mountains, and the HOA is brutal about enforcing fire safety. All the tree litter must be kept cleaned, low tree limbs are trimmed and away from the houses, all the roofs are fireproof, and there are no gutters to fill with leaves.

In California, trees and shrub grow in the wet winter, and it's dry in the summer. Trees used to get logged; all they can do now is burn. Smallish burns used to clean up the forest floor; now we bring in armies of firefighters and planes and helicopters to put them out, so we can have a hotter fire next time.

There will always be ignition sources; it's silly to blame them.

The sun looks almost normal right now; it was deep orange a couple of days ago. It's still smoky... I can usually see The Corncob (sometimes called Salesforce Tower) from my desk, but not today.

tirsdag den 13. november 2018 kl. 01.26.53 UTC+1 skrev John Larkin:

I though they had scaled back on putting out small fires not only to have more manageable small fires instead of one big fire, but also because it turned out to cause a number of tree species to go nearly extinct

Why would you expect the government to be able to prevent such fires or to prevent damage to all homes when a fire like this is raging? Do you also expect the government to protect you from earthquakes and tornadoes?

This guy was lucky that he was able to prevent his home from burning and even luckier to not have died.

Rick C.

The whole point of this thread is that luck had little to do with preventing his house from burning.

Dan

On Monday, November 12, 2018 at 9:48:58 PM UTC-5, snipped-for-privacy@gmail.com w rote:

. Relying on the government is dumb, the local utility couldn't even keep t heir water flowing, a total joke. I imagine this property is very pricey gi ven the location.

o prevent damage to all homes when a fire like this is raging? Do you also expect the government to protect you from earthquakes and tornadoes?

If the government takes your money to develop emergency response services a nd systems then you're damned right it's an expectation they should be able to do something. In the case of major natural disasters, like tornadoes an d hurricanes, they damned well better have reliable and accurate warning sy stems in place that reach everyone in the danger zone.

even luckier to not have died.

That's just it, he made his own luck, it's called competence. No real dange r here really, most Malibu residents who didn't flee the area simply camped out on the beach where fires rarely rage. Malibu is a beachside strip, che ck your map, the whole place is already at the beach.

Relying on the government is dumb, the local utility couldn't even keep th eir water flowing, a total joke. I imagine this property is very pricey giv en the location.

My first thought is they need to kick some ass with that bunch at Stanford to genetically engineer microbiotica that breaks down all that forest litte r under extremely dry conditions or at greatly accelerated rates when it's wet. Then disperse the material by air.

Why do all that, when you could just burn it? Our HOA does pile up the litter into small piles and burn it, in the greenbelts and other common areas of our development.

But California is 164,000 square miles. That's a lot of dirt to keep groomed. Probably the best we can do is protect people and structures, carve some fire breaks, and let things burn. Loggers would make the fire breaks for free, or even pay.

The first Spanish settlers were warned by the natives about giant firestorms. This isn't new.

ce. Relying on the government is dumb, the local utility couldn't even keep their water flowing, a total joke. I imagine this property is very pricey given the location.

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rd to genetically engineer microbiotica that breaks down all that forest li tter under extremely dry conditions or at greatly accelerated rates when it 's wet. Then disperse the material by air.

This is why you want microbes, they replicate and spread.

The Indians would know because they set a lot of fires. Fire there was thei r main agricultural tool.

d even luckier to not have died.

nting his house from burning.

In reality luck was a huge part of it. I suspect his home was surrounded b y less brush than many areas and it was only luck that he had enough water to last through the fire. Are you suggesting he knew how much water it wou ld take and he knew exactly what he was doing?

I suggest what he did was not much different than standing up to a street t hug in the middle of a mugging. Maybe you will scare him away, or maybe yo u will get fatally shot. This guy didn't know either.

Rick C. Tesla referral code -

ce. Relying on the government is dumb, the local utility couldn't even keep their water flowing, a total joke. I imagine this property is very pricey given the location.

to prevent damage to all homes when a fire like this is raging? Do you al so expect the government to protect you from earthquakes and tornadoes?

and systems then you're damned right it's an expectation they should be ab le to do something.

Really? You expect the government to be able to put out every fire no matt er how large or how widespread? You sir, are a master of expectation.

ey damned well better have reliable and accurate warning systems in place t hat reach everyone in the danger zone.

So are you saying they didn't provide warnings for these fires?

d even luckier to not have died.

ger here really, most Malibu residents who didn't flee the area simply camp ed out on the beach where fires rarely rage. Malibu is a beachside strip, c heck your map, the whole place is already at the beach.

If he had died while trying to save his home many people would be talking a bout how stupid he was for underestimating the fire. No, he didn't "make" his luck. Luck is luck, meaning the part of our lives that isn't controlle d. There was nothing about the fire that was controlled. He made an effor t and was lucky to not have died trying.

This is much like a guy who was in California where earthquakes are common. Rather than pay for expensive earthquake insurance he suped up his home w ith bigger beams and supports, etc. An earthquake hit and his house came d own. Not only did he lose the value of his home, but also the extra money he spent on super-building it. His efforts didn't pan out so we criticize him for not doing the "smart" thing and buying insurance. Had "luck" gone differently people would have praised him for being clever enough to "make" his own luck. Bull. It's still luck.

Rick C. Tesla referral code -

e. Relying on the government is dumb, the local utility couldn't even keep their water flowing, a total joke. I imagine this property is very pricey g iven the location.

=1

d to genetically engineer microbiotica that breaks down all that forest lit ter under extremely dry conditions or at greatly accelerated rates when it' s wet. Then disperse the material by air.

So rather than expecting the government to carry the day, you expect scienc e to carry the day? Still no sign of taking personal responsibility from w hat I can see.

Rick C. Tesla referral code -

Setting fires is a reasonable way to supress fires. There are forests here with 1000 trees per acre and deep brush and litter. 60 trees per acre is claimed to be more reasonable.

Fire is natural in California.

rance. Relying on the government is dumb, the local utility couldn't even k eep their water flowing, a total joke. I imagine this property is very pric ey given the location.

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nford to genetically engineer microbiotica that breaks down all that forest litter under extremely dry conditions or at greatly accelerated rates when it's wet. Then disperse the material by air.

heir main agricultural tool.

The Indians weren't doing that. Setting fires was their way of clearing the land for planting the following spring. They also played games setting mas sive fires in the prairies to remove woody brush and have it replaced with grasses all of which occurs naturally and requires no input from them. The resulting grasslands would attract and sustain huge herds of bison which wa s their main source of food.

nce. Relying on the government is dumb, the local utility couldn't even kee p their water flowing, a total joke. I imagine this property is very pricey given the location.

w=1

ord to genetically engineer microbiotica that breaks down all that forest l itter under extremely dry conditions or at greatly accelerated rates when i t's wet. Then disperse the material by air.

nce to carry the day? Still no sign of taking personal responsibility from what I can see.

Care to explain how one takes personal responsibility for lands they don't even own and much of which is government owned?

ance. Relying on the government is dumb, the local utility couldn't even ke ep their water flowing, a total joke. I imagine this property is very price y given the location.

or to prevent damage to all homes when a fire like this is raging? Do you also expect the government to protect you from earthquakes and tornadoes?

es and systems then you're damned right it's an expectation they should be able to do something.

tter how large or how widespread? You sir, are a master of expectation.

they damned well better have reliable and accurate warning systems in place that reach everyone in the danger zone.

and even luckier to not have died.

anger here really, most Malibu residents who didn't flee the area simply ca mped out on the beach where fires rarely rage. Malibu is a beachside strip, check your map, the whole place is already at the beach.

about how stupid he was for underestimating the fire. No, he didn't "make " his luck. Luck is luck, meaning the part of our lives that isn't control led. There was nothing about the fire that was controlled. He made an eff ort and was lucky to not have died trying.

n. Rather than pay for expensive earthquake insurance he suped up his home with bigger beams and supports, etc. An earthquake hit and his house came down. Not only did he lose the value of his home, but also the extra mone y he spent on super-building it. His efforts didn't pan out so we criticiz e him for not doing the "smart" thing and buying insurance. Had "luck" gon e differently people would have praised him for being clever enough to "mak e" his own luck. Bull. It's still luck.

Sounds like you have issues with self-reliant people.

rance. Relying on the government is dumb, the local utility couldn't even k eep their water flowing, a total joke. I imagine this property is very pric ey given the location.

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nford to genetically engineer microbiotica that breaks down all that forest litter under extremely dry conditions or at greatly accelerated rates when it's wet. Then disperse the material by air.

ience to carry the day? Still no sign of taking personal responsibility fr om what I can see.

t even own and much of which is government owned?

Why would anyone want to??? Why do you expect academia to save anyone's as s?

Rick C. Tesla referral code -+--

erance. Relying on the government is dumb, the local utility couldn't even keep their water flowing, a total joke. I imagine this property is very pri cey given the location.

s or to prevent damage to all homes when a fire like this is raging? Do yo u also expect the government to protect you from earthquakes and tornadoes?

ices and systems then you're damned right it's an expectation they should b e able to do something.

matter how large or how widespread? You sir, are a master of expectation.

, they damned well better have reliable and accurate warning systems in pla ce that reach everyone in the danger zone.

g and even luckier to not have died.

danger here really, most Malibu residents who didn't flee the area simply camped out on the beach where fires rarely rage. Malibu is a beachside stri p, check your map, the whole place is already at the beach.

ng about how stupid he was for underestimating the fire. No, he didn't "ma ke" his luck. Luck is luck, meaning the part of our lives that isn't contr olled. There was nothing about the fire that was controlled. He made an e ffort and was lucky to not have died trying.

mon. Rather than pay for expensive earthquake insurance he suped up his ho me with bigger beams and supports, etc. An earthquake hit and his house ca me down. Not only did he lose the value of his home, but also the extra mo ney he spent on super-building it. His efforts didn't pan out so we critic ize him for not doing the "smart" thing and buying insurance. Had "luck" g one differently people would have praised him for being clever enough to "m ake" his own luck. Bull. It's still luck.

No, I have issues with people who oversimplify situations and draw unreason able conclusions.

Rick C.

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rd to genetically engineer microbiotica that breaks down all that forest li tter under extremely dry conditions or at greatly accelerated rates when it 's wet. Then disperse the material by air.

Well, air quality is one reason: my location has a lot of 'burn ban' season s, but there are still days when you don't want to breathe heavily outdoors. Another is s oil replenishment, a few small deep piles of ash aren't really useful returns to the soil of t he trace elements those plants had locked up from years of absorption through the roots. And a th ird is habitat for the wildlife: scraping oyster beds can help navigation, but it kills the future oyster population; clearing brush from streams can make it look neat , but it destroys the salmon fry's best protection from predators; and, a lot of ver y-high-maintenance agriculture has been developed to keep vanilla in cultivation where there a ren't the right insects to pollinate.

Do you know where all the useful bugs sleep? It's important because the pyramid of life doesn't start at the top (all of us big critters) but at the bottom.