Amateur electronics in danger due to lack of DIP ICs

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The amount of integrated circuits with real pins on them, being capable of  
stuffed into a "breadboard", is rapidly decreasing. I have not been in a po
sition where I needed to prototype a new design (as a hobbyist) in years. B
ut now I do and while searching for a >10MSPS A/D and a FIFO memory to use  
with it I am seeing nothing available with pins.  What are home builders do
ing these days about this?  Is there a company that will solder these surfa
ce mount chips onto a small circuit board for a reasonable price? I bought  
one of those SSOP adapter boards and there is no way I can solder those tin
y pins without bridging solder over the gap between pins. What are people d
oing?

Re: Amateur electronics in danger due to lack of DIP ICs
On 2021-02-22 17:24, Deane Williams wrote:
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I don't even try. I slather all pins freely with solder
and then wick off the excess with braid.

Jeroen Belleman

Re: Amateur electronics in danger due to lack of DIP ICs
@gioia.aioe.org:

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  Very detrimental to the chips.  That lead frame sinks heat directly  
into the chip die mount.

  ALL soldering should be on the pin one time and for a short period  
and NO big blobs of solder.  You probably use two irons to place MLCC  
caps too.  Do you also walk across carpetted floors with your computer  
processors in hand, scraping the rug as you go?

  Sheesh.  Next reply will be about how it has 'never caused me any  
problems'.

  Do you also dismiss ESD vulnerablity?

  I can solder down to 0402 or even 0201 with a scope.  No braid needed  
here.  I know how to solder like a NASA rocket scientist... should.

Re: Amateur electronics in danger due to lack of DIP ICs
On Mon, 22 Feb 2021 18:25:33 +0000 (UTC),
snipped-for-privacy@decadence.org wrote:

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Ever hear of a reflow oven? Whole boards spend minutes above solder
melting temperature. Works fine.



--  

John Larkin         Highland Technology, Inc   trk

The cork popped merrily, and Lord Peter rose to his feet.  
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Re: Amateur electronics in danger due to lack of DIP ICs
tirsdag den 23. februar 2021 kl. 01.47.24 UTC+1 skrev John Larkin:
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some even use wavesoldering, so smd  and through hole can be done at the same tie



Re: Amateur electronics in danger due to lack of DIP ICs
mandag den 22. februar 2021 kl. 17.24.44 UTC+1 skrev Deane Williams:
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f stuffed into a "breadboard", is rapidly decreasing. I have not been in a  
position where I needed to prototype a new design (as a hobbyist) in years.
 But now I do and while searching for a >10MSPS A/D and a FIFO memory to us
e with it I am seeing nothing available with pins. What are home builders d
oing these days about this? Is there a company that will solder these surfa
ce mount chips onto a small circuit board for a reasonable price? I bought  
one of those SSOP adapter boards and there is no way I can solder those tin
y pins without bridging solder over the gap between pins. What are people d
oing?


soldering ssop is not difficult, just need some flux

https://youtu.be/-l5D2em4PBI

Re: Amateur electronics in danger due to lack of DIP ICs
On 2/22/21 10:24 AM, Deane Williams wrote:
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Currently I just buy breakout boards with the part and assorted support  
components already mounted. See places like SparkFun, Adafruit,  
Aliexpress (if you are adventurous) and others.

Re: Amateur electronics in danger due to lack of DIP ICs
On Monday, February 22, 2021 at 11:24:44 AM UTC-5, Deane Williams wrote:
Quoted text here. Click to load it
f stuffed into a "breadboard", is rapidly decreasing. I have not been in a  
position where I needed to prototype a new design (as a hobbyist) in years.
 But now I do and while searching for a >10MSPS A/D and a FIFO memory to us
e with it I am seeing nothing available with pins. What are home builders d
oing these days about this? Is there a company that will solder these surfa
ce mount chips onto a small circuit board for a reasonable price? I bought  
one of those SSOP adapter boards and there is no way I can solder those tin
y pins without bridging solder over the gap between pins. What are people d
oing?

The right flux, fine solder and tip.  And then some magnification.  
I bought something like this,

https://www.electronics-lab.com/mustool-launches-new-g1200-microscope/

Yeah and lots of youtube videos....  

George H.

Re: Amateur electronics in danger due to lack of DIP ICs
On 02/22/21 16:24, Deane Williams wrote:
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Use the small outline to dil adapter boards, then
wirewrap pins or 20swg wire to mount onto perfboard, whatever.
Cheap on Ebay and elsewhere...

Chris

Re: Amateur electronics in danger due to lack of DIP ICs
On 2/22/2021 11:24 AM, Deane Williams wrote:
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Tin the pads and use a good amount of flux, and with a fine iron and  
some magnification and practice you can just solder the pins one-by-one,  
hold chip down with a jeweler's screwdriver, tack one edge down, then  
the other, then nail the rest of them. The pins won't bridge if you use  
plenty of flux and don't use too much solder.

I tend to check continuity from the pin to the pad with a needle probe  
multi-meter afterwards to be on the safe side but with practice the  
whole process takes only a minute or two.

The only components I struggle with are the very small packages with odd  
pin spacing like US-8.

Once you learn how to mount SMTs to surfboards you'll never want to go  
back to DIPs. DIPs stink! The pins break off and then you're fucked.  
Snapping a pin off a $8 DIP ic isn't the end of the world but it's sure  
a bummer

Re: Amateur electronics in danger due to lack of DIP ICs
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I would much rather work with most SMDs than the DIPs.

I was over 60 years old and taught myself how to solder the SMDs.  Just  
watched a lot of You tube vidios.  Main thing is the proper tools.  
Number one for me was an Amscope stereo microscope at around $ 200.  
Then as a hobbist a hot air rework station for about $ 80.  If I was in  
business I would pay about 4 or 5 times that for a professional station.  
It has the hot air wand and very fine tip soldering iron.  sometimes it  
is easier to use the solder paste that comes in the needle thing and you  
just place the paste on the pads and hit it with hot air.  

The only ICs that I can think of is the ones that have the contacts on  
the bottom and you just have to heat and pray everything melted and  
nothing shorted.  They may not be as bad as I think as I have not tried  
that on an good piece of gear, just played a few times on some bad  
computer boards.  The old boards are a good place to practice on before  
going to working or repairable equipment.

Re: Amateur electronics in danger due to lack of DIP ICs
On 2/22/2021 1:57 PM, Ralph Mowery wrote:
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If one's doing digital prototyping SMT chips are awesome too, you mount  
your devices to surfboards and solder in long pin-headers "upside-down",  
mount them to a sheet of copper-clad with those 3M picture-hanging  
stickies and ground the ground pins to the copper, then use a zip-tool  
to wire up everything else it goes really quickly, and you can run what  
you get very fast on the solid ground plane.

You can do this with DIPs too but good-quality DIP wire-wrap sockets  
aren't cheap anymore.

Re: Amateur electronics in danger due to lack of DIP ICs
Metcal iron, good optics, lead solder, good flux.  My secret is to lengthen
 the pads on the PCB design -- it gives the iron something to heat up, and  
helps to drag excess solder away.  Doing this makes machine-stuffing much m
ore problematic, tho, so you have to choose.  For QFPs with bottom pads, I  
put a plated hole in the middle of the design.  Then, when I finish solderi
ng the top pins, I can reach through the back with a fine tip and get the b
ottom pad.  I can do QPFs down to 3x3mm that way.  Here's an example:

https://wiki.harvard.edu/confluence/display/ESHOP/TT011%3A+Yacoby+4-In+4-Ou
t+Gate+Box

(Pardon the pics -- my official lab photographer is restricted from the lab
 these days.) Take a look at top and bottom pics of the FPGA board.  There'
s a 32-pin QFN next to the white ECO wires, with a filled-in hole on the bo
ttom.  As mentioned earlier, you need to work quickly when soldering the bo
ttom hole, to avoid damaging the chip.  As soon as the solder melts onto th
e pad, remove the iron.

Re: Amateur electronics in danger due to lack of DIP ICs
On Mon, 22 Feb 2021 13:57:34 -0500, Ralph Mowery


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I wouldn't even think about trying to mount a ball grid array.  That's
what my PCB house who also does my stuffing is for.

John


Re: Amateur electronics in danger due to lack of DIP ICs
John wrote:
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Hey, it's Professor DeArmond! (the epitome of evil among butterfly  
collectors).  Nice to have you back, man--how are you doing?

Cheers

Phil Hobbs

--  
Dr Philip C D Hobbs
Principal Consultant
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Re: Amateur electronics in danger due to lack of DIP ICs
On Mon, 22 Feb 2021 19:15:37 -0500, Phil Hobbs


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I had a pretty rough last year but I'm back on my feet now and ready
to get to work again designing electronics.

Thanks for the welcome back.
John

Re: Amateur electronics in danger due to lack of DIP ICs
On 2/22/2021 12:41 PM, bitrex wrote:
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Realized that should be "tack one corner down"


Re: Amateur electronics in danger due to lack of DIP ICs

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Place fine pitch chips on a pin array carrier to plug in with.

Re: Amateur electronics in danger due to lack of DIP ICs
On a sunny day (Mon, 22 Feb 2021 08:24:38 -0800 (PST)) it happened Deane

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Do not know about this specific application
but I have many boards with complicated chips from ebay that interface via headers..
Also I have quite a few adaptors for whatever format chips.
If you go to ebay.com and type
 ADC module
in the search window, all headers, many types of chips.
Now do the same for  
 FIFO module

Re: Amateur electronics in danger due to lack of DIP ICs
On Monday, February 22, 2021 at 11:24:44 AM UTC-5, Deane Williams wrote:
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f stuffed into a "breadboard", is rapidly decreasing. I have not been in a  
position where I needed to prototype a new design (as a hobbyist) in years.
 But now I do and while searching for a >10MSPS A/D and a FIFO memory to us
e with it I am seeing nothing available with pins. What are home builders d
oing these days about this? Is there a company that will solder these surfa
ce mount chips onto a small circuit board for a reasonable price? I bought  
one of those SSOP adapter boards and there is no way I can solder those tin
y pins without bridging solder over the gap between pins. What are people d
oing?

https://jlcpcb.com/

Very cheap and reasonable quality.  They only assemble parts on their parts
 list, but it is huge.  

Many hobbyists use them.  

--  

Rick C.

- Get 1,000 miles of free Supercharging
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