4046 PLL model scarcity.

A VCO, in itself, is a 1/s function. The filter adds another 1/s, so a zero (your 10K) is needed for loop stability.

...Jim Thompson

--
| James E.Thompson, CTO                            |    mens     |
| Analog Innovations, Inc.                         |     et      |
| Analog/Mixed-Signal ASIC's and Discrete Systems  |    manus    |
| Phoenix, Arizona  85048    Skype: Contacts Only  |             |
| Voice:(480)460-2350  Fax: Available upon request |  Brass Rat  |
| E-mail Icon at http://www.analog-innovations.com |    1962     |
             
I love to cook with wine.     Sometimes I even put it in the food.

Jim Thompson wrote in news: snipped-for-privacy@4ax.com:

Hell no. :) I just lack a certain conceptual proportion when it comes to arcane thingers like PLL's..

About the lock detector, there IS a use for me... If the input goes loud and noisy, the VCO shoots as high as the circuit config will let it. Imagine that in a live performance. >:) I did see that when this happens, the lock indicator can usefully inhibit some later device to prevent output. I tried thinking of other ways to solve this, but the lock indicator did better than anythign I came up with, and very cheaply. It's just not always 100%. It always safely mutes for bad input, but does not always indicate when good input and lock are present. This might be a PC2-and-harmonic thing, or some basic flaw in the indicator circuit.

George Herold wrote in news:d420780a-8348-4cce-a2d4- snipped-for-privacy@s7g2000yqa.googlegroups.com:

Indeed. That, and RM Marston's book on linear IC's got me very interested in the 4046. I got most of my starting points from those two, and a bit of trial and error.

No digital scope, but I think Phil Hobbs' post said I'd be ok with an analog scope, if fast enough. (Mine is, I think, more than I'll need for this).

As far as I can tell, most 4046 VCO's will be a lot more linear with 100K to

1Meg with a supply voltage as high as they'll take safely, but the last thing I am is an authoroty on this...

What is it you're trying to do? Sub-bass? Chasing lights? What? I did all that s!@# ~40 years ago ;-)

...Jim Thompson

--
| James E.Thompson, CTO                            |    mens     |
| Analog Innovations, Inc.                         |     et      |
| Analog/Mixed-Signal ASIC's and Discrete Systems  |    manus    |
| Phoenix, Arizona  85048    Skype: Contacts Only  |             |
| Voice:(480)460-2350  Fax: Available upon request |  Brass Rat  |
| E-mail Icon at http://www.analog-innovations.com |    1962     |
             
I love to cook with wine.     Sometimes I even put it in the food.

Jim Thompson wrote in news: snipped-for-privacy@4ax.com:

Ok, I got some more on that from Art of Electronics just now, which I'd forgotten about. RM Marston shows that resistor too, though didn't explain it.

Jim Thompson wrote in news: snipped-for-privacy@4ax.com:

Whistle to MIDI convertor. Seriously. :) I actually got fairly good at whistling. I can play a bass guitar fairly well now, and keyboard (with right hand only, poor co-ordination for both), but whistling will allow a very good solo line, and combining that with keyborad via MIDI might give a lead guitarist a hell of a run for their money! A prospect of an instrument that fine has to be worth some effort to acheive. Dieter Doupfer is planning somethign similar using all digital derivations, but his project is forver on the back burner. :) As I'll settle for something less than ideal for many input signals, and already have some good work done, I can hopefulyl get by. I still rely on one of his inventions, which allows a control voltage to fluently scale across several octaves of MIDI to make a monophonic synth play a clean sweep across the entire key range. I had to modify the gadget slightly to do this, but he solves the biggest problem for me, all I have to do is give it a voltage it can use.

No matter how many times people have tried to make this basic notion a reality, it still doesn't exist commercially. Since Bob Moog's log amp, not all that much has changed. At least in the LOG112 I can get that bit ready made with more accuracy and stability than I'll ever need. :) The weak link seems to be the VCO in the PLL, but maybe it's good enough if I can get

0.25%. A brain can usually make itself part of a live player's feedback loop somehow. Violinists have always seemed to manage. :)

Lostgallifreyan wrote in news:Xns9F8C142AA81EEzoodlewurdle@216.196.109.145:

Doepfer.

Try 10M from the PD2 output to ground.

Cheers

Phil Hobbs

--
Dr Philip C D Hobbs
Principal Consultant
ElectroOptical Innovations LLC
Optics, Electro-optics, Photonics, Analog Electronics

160 North State Road #203
Briarcliff Manor NY 10510
845-480-2058

hobbs at electrooptical dot net
http://electrooptical.net

So? You're trying to convert your "whistling" to a tracking tone? Amplitude matching as well as frequency? ...Jim Thompson

--
| James E.Thompson, CTO                            |    mens     |
| Analog Innovations, Inc.                         |     et      |
| Analog/Mixed-Signal ASIC's and Discrete Systems  |    manus    |
| Phoenix, Arizona  85048    Skype: Contacts Only  |             |
| Voice:(480)460-2350  Fax: Available upon request |  Brass Rat  |
| E-mail Icon at http://www.analog-innovations.com |    1962     |
             
I love to cook with wine.     Sometimes I even put it in the food.

Phil Hobbs wrote in news: snipped-for-privacy@electrooptical.net:

Thanks. I got to stop now. Late, and my eyes actually hurt...

Try not worrying about it. ...Jim Thompson

-- | James E.Thompson, CTO | mens | | Analog Innovations, Inc. | et | | Analog/Mixed-Signal ASIC's and Discrete Systems | manus | | Phoenix, Arizona 85048 Skype: Contacts Only | | | Voice:(480)460-2350 Fax: Available upon request | Brass Rat | | E-mail Icon at

| 1962 | I love to cook with wine. Sometimes I even put it in the food.

Amusing problem. Can you record your whistling in some piece-wise-linear format? ...Jim Thompson

--
| James E.Thompson, CTO                            |    mens     |
| Analog Innovations, Inc.                         |     et      |
| Analog/Mixed-Signal ASIC's and Discrete Systems  |    manus    |
| Phoenix, Arizona  85048    Skype: Contacts Only  |             |
| Voice:(480)460-2350  Fax: Available upon request |  Brass Rat  |
| E-mail Icon at http://www.analog-innovations.com |    1962     |
             
I love to cook with wine.     Sometimes I even put it in the food.

Jim Thompson wrote in news: snipped-for-privacy@4ax.com:

Yes, but envelope followers are the least of the difficulty. Catching subtle nonlinear pitch bends and vibrato are far more important. Playing those by hand can take years of practise, but I can whistle them immediately and effectively, so I might as well try to catch that and use it.

The usual instrument people think of for the kind of expression I'm after is a Theremin, or an Ondes Martinot. I can't afford the first, never mind the second, and learning them wouldn't be easy either, and neither use MIDI. A Doepfer R2M ribbon controller is a cheaper way, but I can't be doing with the ribbon bit, it's the control box that does Great Things, so long as I can get it a voltage to use.

Jim Thompson wrote in news: snipped-for-privacy@4ax.com:

I try not to. I hate the sound, and of my voice on any recording. It's the pitch control and dynamic control I like. Those work. But the sooner I convert them to sounds I actually LIKE, the better. :)

Jim Thompson wrote in news: snipped-for-privacy@4ax.com:

I think rest works better... Ò^O

An old man's (me) advice... you're making the problem too difficult... study my boom box posts. ...Jim Thompson

--
| James E.Thompson, CTO                            |    mens     |
| Analog Innovations, Inc.                         |     et      |
| Analog/Mixed-Signal ASIC's and Discrete Systems  |    manus    |
| Phoenix, Arizona  85048    Skype: Contacts Only  |             |
| Voice:(480)460-2350  Fax: Available upon request |  Brass Rat  |
| E-mail Icon at http://www.analog-innovations.com |    1962     |
             
I love to cook with wine.     Sometimes I even put it in the food.

I make it a point to completely crash every night... shut down the mind and rest it... watch a movie... eat a steak... drink some wine... drink some more wine... ;-) ...Jim Thompson

--
| James E.Thompson, CTO                            |    mens     |
| Analog Innovations, Inc.                         |     et      |
| Analog/Mixed-Signal ASIC's and Discrete Systems  |    manus    |
| Phoenix, Arizona  85048    Skype: Contacts Only  |             |
| Voice:(480)460-2350  Fax: Available upon request |  Brass Rat  |
| E-mail Icon at http://www.analog-innovations.com |    1962     |
             
I love to cook with wine.     Sometimes I even put it in the food.

Jim Thompson wrote in news: snipped-for-privacy@4ax.com:

Trust me, there are well known names in the electronic music project field like RA Penfold and Craig Anderton who came up with designs that were far more complex than mine. As mine uses an op-amp as Schmitt trigger to allow PC1 instead of PC2 in the PLL I get a BIG leap in performance accuracy and sensitivity over the usual ways. So long as the PLL's VCO is linear enough I get a CV I can use free of charge, the only other thing I need is the log converter, which I also have now.

The only method I'm aware of that is simpler than mine, is the one in a Korg MS10 'modular' synthesizer, and that one's horrible. :)

Jim Thompson wrote in news: snipped-for-privacy@4ax.com:

I watched Bond earlier, but too much caffiene this morning took its toll...