What happens when solar power is cheaper than grid power?

One needs to take a pragmatic view. Some people may be willing to adjust their lives to address CO2 emissions, but most people will simply follow the path of least financial resistance.

The Government needs to ensure that that path doesn't represent an increase in total cost without a commensurate environmental gain. As things stand, that's very much in doubt.

Sylvia.

Reply to
Sylvia Else
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Spot on as always!

"Sylvia gave a figure of 90% last year or around there. "

Herc

Reply to
Graham Cooper

With the Volt going to cost $60k plus the cost of the panels, the economics are highly suspect.

Reply to
keithr

That would be "Sylvia gave a figure of 90% or around there last year."

I'm still waiting to see you provide any evidence.

Sylvia.

Reply to
Sylvia Else

Isn't that a bit like saying a porche is useless for shipping freight. electric cars are generally solf for a particular use. In any case, it is simply a matter of designing the control circuits to handle the situation.

Reply to
terryc

Yep, these cars are sold at status symbols.

Reply to
terryc

Though it's far from clear which status is being symbolised.

Sylvia.

Reply to
Sylvia Else

You can buy a Porsche quite capable of towing. You can't buy any electric car suitable for towing or long range driving load carrying.

Restricted by their inherent problems from other uses you mean.

Electric motors don't produce torque at high revs, that's a fundamental design limitation. If you use gearing you then increase the load and power consumption, reducing their range. So you end up with a light weight chassis, incapable of towing and bloody expensive to produce.

Reply to
Clocky

.

You said 40%!

An electric motor is 70%! Charging a battery is 70%. 0.7^2 =3D 49%.

A H2 "battery" uses WATER!

The H2 engine gives off WATER VAPOUR for exhaust! It's clean!

No biproduct. You're comparing that to a chemical reaction energy store.

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#12 $305

12V 100AH DEEP CYCLE GEL BATTERY Deep-cycle gel performance for solar installations

You can't do it! Not with a 2 tonne car to carry a 50kg person!

Electric bike maybe! Technology is ripe for bikes, Aus has a 200W limit.

Those 200km/hour electric cars that travel 100km+ range have a BOOT FULL OF BATTERIES! Concept cars!

NiCads got up to 200 recharges. NiMetalHydride got up to 1000. Gel Cells are about 365 charges.

This is the best you can get!

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capacity after 3 months =3D 91% capacity after 6 months =3D 82% capacity after 12 months =3D 64%

A car is moving 1 tonne from 0-100km in 5 seconds...

it's not a battery application! FFS!

You're not going to beat 1000 recharges per battery - EVER

those hybrid cars turn the petrol engine on every time you put the pedal down.

Herc

Reply to
Graham Cooper

seems to be a pet topic of yours.

Results 1 - 10 of about 22 for author:else electrolysis

going through those would be like putting on a Willie Nelson tape

Herc

Reply to
Graham Cooper

97#12

I could fit 20 of these in my boot. 20KW x 1 hour.

What's a V8? 300KW!

but replacement is $6K/year and range is halved by 12 months.

(that's not covering electricity cost)

Herc

Reply to
Graham Cooper

Right, but if you could afford to pay 3-5 years power bill upfront you can make substantial savings by investing on top of your roof!

It's like going from Perfect Competition to Monopoly where there is a greater barrier to entry for greater (partly free) sustained benefit.

It's like incandescent bulbs, they should just tax the hell out of them not ban them. $3 flouro bulb, $10 incandescent.

People making over $50K per year should be paying double for grid power!

And the people who can afford extra solar panels have an option to trickle in actual profits with the grid feed system.

It's a potential small business to invest your capital in.. .. that's if the power companies every paid you for

solar credits > your electricity usage.

Herc

Reply to
Graham Cooper

**Good. I accept your admission that you are wrong.

, but as revs increase the torque tapers off to nothing making them

**Bollocks. Electric motors are quite unlike IC motors, in that maximum torque is generated at zero RPM and continues all the way to maximum, with virtually no fall-off.

Here's a new Audi:

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4,500Nm or torque seems like quite a bit to me. Not enough for you?

The figure seems over-stated to me. 450Nm sound closer to reality. Still, that's plenty of torque for pulling the skin off a rice pudding.

**I suggest you do some learning about electric motors. In any case, I was simply addressing your claim:

"Then there is the fact that an electric car can't pull the skin off a custard."

Do you now resile from that fact?

--
Trevor Wilson www.rageaudio.com.au
Reply to
Trevor Wilson

On 7/9/2012 6:41 PM, Sylvia Else wrote:> On 9/07/2012 2:55 PM, Trevor Wilson wrote: >> On 7/9/2012 2:49 PM, Sylvia Else wrote: >>> On 9/07/2012 1:15 PM, Trevor Wilson wrote: >>>> On 7/9/2012 12:09 PM, Sylvia Else wrote: >>>>> On 9/07/2012 6:39 AM, Trevor Wilson wrote: >>>>>> On 7/6/2012 4:16 PM, Sylvia Else wrote: >>>>>>> Opinions on this vary, but it appears that sometime in the next ten >>>>>>> years, domestic solar power will have an unsubsidised cost that is >>>>>>> below >>>>>>> the daytime domestic grid tarrif. >>>>>>>

**When fuel hits 5 Bucks a Litre, you will likely see a lot of innovative ideas.

**Regardless, we are facing a number of issues that threaten our present lifestyle. These are:

  • Dwindling supplies of cheap oil.
  • Increasing demand for oil.
  • An increasing need to deal with CO2 emissions.

None of the solutions will be without cost. Intelligent thinking can reduce those costs.

You made the point that PV cells were not a nett benefit for the grid. I accept that POV as valid. Given the cost reductions of PV cells, the rise in prices of fossil fuels (both supply related and taxation related), then alternative forms of personal transport will likely be more common. Electric vehicles are ONE, viable form of personal transport. Marry PV cells and electric vehicles and several problems can be dealt with efficiently.

--
Trevor Wilson www.rageaudio.com.au
Reply to
Trevor Wilson

**Now, that is true. Do you imagine that it will always be the case?

In 1908, the average US automobile cost US$3,000.00. In 1909, Henry Ford introduced mass production techniques to the US auto industry and lower the price to $850.00. Further refinements and economies of scale allowed Ford to reduce the price of the Model T to $550.00.

Right now, electric automobiles represent a miniscule proportion of production. Witness the Telsa Roadster. It's performance approximates that of a cheap(?) Ferrari. It is priced similarly. It is built in similar numbers. It is reasonable to accume that, when EVs are built in huge numbers, that costs will fall.

What do you think people will be driving when fuel hits 5 Bucks a Litre?

--
Trevor Wilson www.rageaudio.com.au
Reply to
Trevor Wilson

Innovation doesn't go forever. What's changed since 1990?

iPhones? MP3 players? cheap video projectors?

The Space Shuttle uses the same rocket fuel as the V2!

Batteries are already in mass production with a lot of research for a long time.

There's a few more quantum leaps in innovation left in the next century, but I doubt near perfect high power compact and cheap batteries will be one.

Electric systems have their place, but we'd all be driving around bumper cars before we dismiss the Internal combustions engine.

100KW to power a car, that's 50 air conditioners. You can barely run 1 air conditioner with a $100,000 half tonne solar setup.

Herc

Reply to
Graham Cooper

**I thought a little more on this comment. Buying a Volt is no more suspect that buying a BMW X5 so mum can drop the kids to school.
--
Trevor Wilson www.rageaudio.com.au
Reply to
Trevor Wilson

a

Graham lives in a shed. It's bigger (I think) than the storage shed I just had built, but not as nice. Yes, he's clearly "loaded", but he would get even more loaded if he sealed up the shed and used gas in it. Better yet, Graham, seal up the shed and just open the gas valve a bit, with no flame. Then you won't have to worry about CO poisoning. Happy dreams!

e

More like expecting the authorities.

d
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of

You just can't get much better than a person who pretends to be rich having to go extra lengths to keep the spiders out of the shed he lives in, and dreaming of the day he can move on up to a caravan.

Reply to
BruceS

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huh? I could afford 3 10 room mansions on the Gold Coast next week if I wasn't on the bad tenants list.

I don't see the point in upgrading unless it's substantial.

I have 3 graphics artists on payroll at the moment.

I'm ordering 10 15W amorphous panels today ($1000) to bring me up to

300W total, although the Mono's barely work in winter due to the low slope on the shed roof. And 300AH in batteries ($1400) and not sure what inverter, might get a $2000 inverter charger computer controlled system so I know how to expand later.

It's just open plan living, septic loo in the corner, 12V shower on a mat, spray the place with a huge dose of cochroach surface spray once a month!

No point getting a $10K caravan now, take me a couple months to save $50K, may as well get a mortgage.

Herc

Reply to
Graham Cooper

So not yet any evidence. The fact that I've discussed electrolysis is not the same is saying that I've asserted a particular level of efficiency.

Sylvia.

Reply to
Sylvia Else

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