Security camera questions

A mate wants a set of security cameras around his home. I called a mate in the biz and found that the hardware is not badly priced, but the cameras are very expensive. For a high resolution camera (only), the cost runs to around $1,500.00 each. He needs to be able to identify faces at around 20 Metres. This rules out any of the usual solutions from Electus/Altronics.

I figured that an alternate solution might be at hand.

Buy a couple of standard HD video cameras (say, $300.00 ~ $400.00 each). Choose models with remote control (do the remote controls usually operate the zoom?) and use an external box with pan/tilt capabilities. Use a remote extender to the camera box, along with power and video feed. Take the output and feed it into his computer and the total cost can be kept quite low.

Any thoughts?

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Trevor Wilson
www.rageaudio.com.au
Reply to
Trevor Wilson
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Obviously you are ill equipped to offer advice on this matter

Sounds amateurish and is an dreadful concept , fact is wholesale a good 4 cam analogue installation excluding cable and labour at 540 tvl

1/3" Sony inserts built from generic parts will run over $1200.00 for fixed cams , legally only a licensed cabler can install most of it and if you were to do so would be fined heavily , refer this person to someone with clue in the industry
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Reply to
atec77

Yes, you've never done this before have you? With good reason.

Don't give up your day job.

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Reply to
John Tserkezis

**OK, so you don't know either. I assume you would be able to point out where I have it wrong, if you could.
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Trevor Wilson
www.rageaudio.com.au
Reply to
Trevor Wilson

**Oh yeah. I have set up home security systems previously. They used cheap, shitty cameras. I've never used quality cameras.

With good reason.

**I'm not. Read my words: I'm helping a mate. I have no intention of doing the job. I merely posed the question. HD video cameras are quite inexpensive and my mate has plenty of time on his hands. I will simply point him in the direction. He will install and wire up. I don't have the time to bugger around with such things.
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Trevor Wilson
www.rageaudio.com.au
Reply to
Trevor Wilson

:)

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Reply to
atec77

It's been a few years since I've worked in the industry, but I'll try to remember, and keep up with changes.

A $300-$400 "HD" camera is a combination device, you're not only paying for the image element and the interface electronics, but also for features that are directly marketed to end users who intend on hanging them around their necks, not bolt them to a wall. As such, you get less image element value for money, and more tourist value for money.

Dedicated cameras are all image element and interface electronics, and come standard with mounting bits because they know *their* end users are going to bolt them to a wall, not wear them around their necks.

Optional extras, such as B/W, Colour, auto-iris, infrared efficacy (especially for colour cameras where their IR response may not be as good as your typical monochrome camera). In addition, pan/tilt/zoom etc are all are options because you may not need certain features in certain areas, and probably don't want to pay for it either.

In addition, dedicated cameras have optional weatherproof cases, touristy-style cameras may or may not, so you're gambling somewhat when it comes to cases, AND their mounting options (waterproof touristy type cameras only have a neck strap, no provision for bolting to a wall) are very limited - all bets are off, and it's up to YOU to find mounting method.

I haven't even touched on the interface options of the cameras? Do they have composite video output as a option? USB? IP? What are the implications of each, and did you factor in the cost of interface electronics where required?

Remote control of pan/tilt/zoom functionality also is better refined, in that the signals are transmitted during the blanking phase of the video signal, negating the need for an additional signal cable. Thus making installation costs lower. IP capable cameras inherently have two-way communication, so it largely a moot point as far as additional control cable costs go.

Along with low cost, you also lose the right to use that video footage in court, if it came to that. Be sure to check your setup is going to generate court-acceptable footage if you need it, because otherwise it'll only be good for internal company monitoring (employee theft, slacking off etc).

Yes, I have lots of thoughts, but the ones that are specifically pertaining to this converstaion include supplied software (for PC-centric installations), or features on supplied box that are going to be a HUGE drawcard (or drawback depending on your point of view). If you can get what you want from something that's sold entirely as a software solution, then great, but you may be losing out on other features or configuration options you might need just don't know yet.

Do your homework.

You clearly haven't, because you're posting a statement disguised as a question. If you've already made up your mind, then why ask?

You didn't even state if cost (cheap) is the all-important option. This is a valid point.

If you want full features and are finding if you can get that at ultra-low cost, there ARE going to be drawbacks. Not only in image quality, control and storage, but also system management, AND (again, if it comes to that) what you can legally do with your data once you've got it.

Basically, if your lunch was free, you lose your whining rights.

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Reply to
John Tserkezis

"Trevor Wilson" wrote in news: snipped-for-privacy@mid.individual.net:

This mob might be worth looking at, they have an Aussie rep and you can get board cameras for about twice the cost of a webcam, but they are much nicer cameras.

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Reply to
Geoff

**NOW we're cooking!

**You'd think so. However, I've examined the output from a $400.00 HD camera. It is excellent and very likely suitable for the purpose. In fact, the performance is nothing short of astonishing. In fact, I did some work at a pub I fitted a sound system to a few years back. They upgraded all their surveillance equipment to digital (it was all analogue) and I had the opportunity to play with the equipment. Since the cameras were mounted in domes (which my mate says is a *very bad thing*) I judged the results as possibly inferior to a domestic handycam. Of course, I could not do a side-by-side comparison. I was hoping that someone may have done so.
**Indeed. I am aware that there is a fair bit of jiggery pokery involved, but my mate is reasonably handy.
**Pan/tilt empty cases can be purchased quite inexpensively. IR response of the handicams is unknown to me. Arranging some IR floodlighting is not difficult, nor that expensive however.
**Like I said: A weatherproof case is not difficult to obtain, nor onerously expensive.
**There's where stuff does get interesting. If I can use high speed USB or Firewire for video and control, then things are simple. If I need to take an HD feed, then things get a little messy, but not insurmountable. My mate is willing to keep cables quite short (
**Running one or five cables is pretty much inconsequential, given the short cable runs. I'm happy for him to run separate cables for power, video, pan/tilt and remote control. It's not a big deal. IF it can be made to work, of course. I'm relying on the camera having remote zoom capability. This is something I've only touched on, as the sales droid at JB HI Fi had no idea. Oh, except for one thing. One part of the Miranda store had a dead zone for video surveillance. They rigged up a cheap digicam and organised it to work and, by all reports, it worked fine for their needs.
**Sure. I looked at that option, but, again, the costs of professional equipment, with adequate resolution (full HD) is quite expensive. If my mate was prepared to live with (say) VGA resolution, it would be a no-brainer. I'd just buy him a professional kit and let him hook it all up.
**Not my problem. But I will ensure that he is aware of that issue.

Be sure to check your setup is going to

**It is was for commercial premises, I would certainly ONLY use professional equipment. This is domestic only.
**I was curious if anyone had done what I propose and if it was successful. If someone had tried it and it had failed, then I would likely can the idea out of hand.
**Indeed. When I quizzed him on his needs, I went to the usual catalogues and quickly found that the Electus/Altronics solutions are inadequate for his needs. My security mate provided the minimum specs of the equipment that I would need for the job. Then my mind wandered to domestic digicams. And, I have to say, their performance is surprisingly good.
**I expect drawbacks, but the cost is potentially around $1k, compared to almost $8k for a professional set-up. That is a huge temptation to try it out. Worst case, my mate is stuck with a couple of domestic digicams and some cables, that he can't use.
**Thanks a whole bunch for your input. I appreciate it.
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Trevor Wilson
www.rageaudio.com.au
Reply to
Trevor Wilson

**Outstanding. Unfortunately, I've been referred to their Australian distributor, but I will await pricing details. Their product appear to be almost ideal for my needs.
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Trevor Wilson
www.rageaudio.com.au
Reply to
Trevor Wilson

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might work, if the local price isn't good.

Cheers Don...

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Don McKenzie

Dontronics Blog:     http://www.GodzillaSeaMonkey.com
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Reply to
Don McKenzie

And there is your problem; high quality video into garbage. You would need a very high definition capture/converter card/dongle.

Also, it isn't just the cameras, but the constant lighting needed 24x365.

Reply to
terryc

A dedicated dvr is the right solution and atm are cheap

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Reply to
atec77

if you can't get remote zoom using "LIRC and a led" you might have to use a couple of solenoids or modify the camera replcing the switch contacts with reed relay contacts.

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Reply to
Jasen Betts

At $300-500 this would appear to fit the bill.

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Reply to
keithr

hi, read this :

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below is part email of a enquiery i sent ;

This camera is 640x480 pixels (VGA), H.264 Real Time 30fps, The camera with compression H.264 is better than other cameras.

I think you can check it by your self,here it is a DEMO for this camera:

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The user name is admin,password is 123456.Please do not change the setting about this camera,and for your first time log in,you should download the software.

mark

Reply to
no one

Interesting thread. On the topic of security cameras, I have an issue I've been meaning to looking into, namely how to stop spider webs in and around outdoor cameras... many of mine are only good for 2-3 days before spider webs obscure the night view and require cleaning. Any ideas, anyone?

Also, been wondering about the viability or running external IR lights? Do they even exist at all? I did have a look around several months ago but didn't find anything along those lines. Cheers

Reply to
Jeßus

Depending on how far you want to go, could use one of those timed aerosol sprayers (like they use in public toilets) load with insect spray and get it to give a burst every day, in the direction of where the spiders tend to start from.

Some method of wind detection could be used, (either a rotating vane, or a hanging metal flap connected to a switch) so as the spray only happens in still air, to avoid spray coming back onto the lens and fogging it.

Another method - if the webs are relatively close might be to have a bit of bent wire - in a semicircle, motorised that will to a sweep out around the front of the camera, sweeping the webs away every day or so, or on demand and coming to rest against the wall.

I think you will find that if you destroy the webs often enough in the same place, the spider will go elsewhere. Hence why you don't often see spider webs across walkways etc, where there will be plenty where people don't go, and don't disturb them.

.

Reply to
kreed

I have 5 permanent security cameras, here is one of them:

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A feather duster every 2 or 3 weeks generally sorts them out. Perhaps it a geographical problem. I am in Melbourne.

Cheers Don...

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Don McKenzie

Dontronics Blog:     http://www.GodzillaSeaMonkey.com
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Reply to
Don McKenzie

Krunchy , ask your pest exterminator

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Reply to
atec77

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