What Are Extraterrestrials Watching?

There's also the Copernican principle which would say that humanity is more-or-less an "average" technological civilization, in orbit around an average star, at an average point in the Universe's history.

If there are many other technological civilizations in the Universe, i.e. intelligent life is common, it doesn't seem unreasonable at to assume that these civilizations would be the product of convergent evolution and would have similar characteristics, at least similar enough to the point that a common understanding could be reached through language.

With a data set of one, there's certainly no scientific justification for assuming we are either exceptional, or that everyone else are Gods and we are garden spiders. Assume "average" until proven otherwise.

Reply to
bitrex
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ot some sort of pseudo-science based on the incredibly arrogant position th at any sort of ET (again) from any source, near or far, has the slightest t hing in common with humans. Repeat, we have more in common with a garden sp ider than any conceivable ET, from any source, near or far.

I don't see any logical or factual basis for any assumptions about extrater restrials, should they exist.

NT

Reply to
tabbypurr

At the moment you naturally have to start with an _assumption_ (i.e. theory), either they exist, or they don't. If you assume they don't then there's little more to say. If you assume they do then, currently, the only further hypothesis which is logically justified from your axiom is that humanity is a typical example.

None of the above is non-science, but it is as far as science can currently take you with a data point of one. Regression to the mean is a real science thing, and if it is actually science and holds true for populations on Earth then to be so it should hold true for populations of things everywhere, not just on Earth. There is no reason to assume a-priori that it doesn't.

Speculation about how we're just like ants in a Universe filled with inscrutable intelligent beings of inscrutable purpose is at this point philosophy, not science.

Reply to
bitrex

Consider the string of necessary coincidences in assuming we are any sort o f "average".

Water (hydrogen & oxygen in massive quantities within a specific temperatur e range). Carbon. Iron. Copper.

These four things within a specific set of chemical parameters are what per mit life such as ours within our temperature band on our planet. Change any one of the above, or the surrounding chemistry and "we" are not possible

Nor is there any reason to believe that the concept of "language" applies. Of course, there will be commonality as required by any 'developed' civiliz ation, one being the periodic table. But how to convey that between identit ies is the difficulty. We cannot even assume that we might recognize intell igence in an ET, nor they in us.

Not suggesting gods vs. spiders. What I am suggesting is that we share much with spiders, somewhere around 50% of our genome. We will not have that co mmonality with an ET, nor will ETs have a genome to compare. That is the po int.

Evolution converging is touching and naive. There is no reason for it to do so, and if there is an 'imperative' towards life and/or intelligence, conv ergence would be counter to that imperative. Where there is free energy, th ere is a potential for life. It need not be based on water, carbon, iron, o r copper, all or any. We have the sun as our source. Might be something els e, elsewhere.

But, let's assume intelligent life with a similar chemistry operating withi n a similar temperature range. Meaning that they will want roughly the same things we do, and must go through roughly the same steps to get them. A lo t of other assumptions follow necessarily as well. Now, give them FTL drive .

How successful have we as a species been at meeting new people 'just like u s' but for skin color and environmental development? Not very. Not even wit h those just like us separated by only a bit of land or water. Now, make th at 'other' not even a little bit like us. Perhaps as different as a lemur a nd an octopus.

Now, consider where we are at this moment.

The state of the planet. Population. Feeding that population. Natural resources. Clean water. Clean air.

We are reaching the point of unsustainability. Will the theoretical ET sour ce be any different. Or, will they need resources. Remember, Lemur & Octopu s, Human and Spider. And we share genes with them. They will need resources , and find a the functional equivalent of a bunch of spiders as the only im pediment. We certainly do not treat strange humans well. They will have abs olutely no incentive to treat us well.

Guys and gals, there may well be, and very likely are ETs. But they won't c are about us. They may need what we have, and they will take it if they ca n.

Further, if they are not based on water/iron/copper/carbon, we are well-and

-truly SOL, assuming that they come here. For sure, they will not be coming 'to us'. Just here.

More light reading: Not Final by Isaac Asimov.

Peter Wieck Melrose Park, PA

Reply to
pfjw

obviously not. Indeed it would be daft to do so

patently illogical

Science does not even begin to take you there with one piece of data. If you think it does you have fundamentally misunderstood science.

NT

Reply to
tabbypurr

IIRC you're a nobody who also thinks the thousands of climate scientists with advanced degrees who actually do it for a living "fundamentally misunderstand" science, too. IOW, get stuffed, chump.

Reply to
bitrex

you've certainly confirmed you do not understand what science is. Or logic.

NT

Reply to
tabbypurr

Abuse does not remedy the absence of fact or logic.

Reply to
tabbypurr

The possibilities of gregarious extraterrestrials have been explored well in fiction. In Clarke's '2001', ...2010, 2061, "3001: The Final Odyssey" he suggests one-way communication to young intelligences, and general encouragement, at the behest of a distant ancient E.T. actor.

Stanislaw Lem's "Fiasco" is a more realistic treatment: we've just barely arranged communication with a couple of Earth species, but the long-lived social animals like great whales, elephants, aren't really talking to us. What would they say?

Reply to
whit3rd

More like this:

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From Damon Knight.

Peter Wieck Melrose Park, PA

Reply to
pfjw

Actually for Antifa, its acolytes and apologists, it most assuredly does!

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Reply to
Cursitor Doom

You've got nothing.

Reply to
bitrex

You've got nothing.

Reply to
bitrex

He has no science facts or logical statements to present. He's being a very grumpy old contrarian. Cluck, cluck, cluck.

Reply to
bitrex

lol. Troll plonked.

Reply to
tabbypurr

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