Help: Hougen Magnetic Drill Problem

(...)

is a cold solder joint somewhere?

Yes. Take a photograph of the various plugs so that you can put it back together correctly. Unplug everything. Wiggle the connectors and you'll probably find the "cold" solder joint. Reflow the solder connections using the same type of solder that was originally used (Lead-Tin or RoHS type). Clean off the flux. If you try to solder it with the connectors plugged in, you'll either solder the connectors together, or melt the plastic insulators. Also, look for "insulation crimps" on the wire plug ends.

However, I don't think that's the problem. My crystal ball suggests that the brushes on the motor may be the culprit. Try using your ohms guesser on the brush contacts and see if the motor presents a few ohms. Also spin the drive shaft to see if you don't have an "flat spots" on the commutator. Of course, visually inspect the brushes.

If that looks ok, it's probably something between the power and the drill motor, which is infested with interlock switches. Each should be checked individually with the ohms guesser for continuity.

Incidentally, I failed to find a schematic or wiring diagram online.

--
Jeff Liebermann     jeffl@cruzio.com 
150 Felker St #D    http://www.LearnByDestroying.com 
Santa Cruz CA 95060 http://802.11junk.com 
Skype: JeffLiebermann     AE6KS    831-336-2558

I found the shop manual. It shows the PCB details but no schematic. Check if it's wired correctly.

--
Jeff Liebermann     jeffl@cruzio.com 
150 Felker St #D    http://www.LearnByDestroying.com 
Santa Cruz CA 95060 http://802.11junk.com 
Skype: JeffLiebermann     AE6KS    831-336-2558

I believe Jeff is steering you in the right direction. Worn brushes and weakened brush springs can lead to intermittent/no contact between the brushes and the commutator bars. With something softer than a hammer head (block of wood for example) tap on the left side, then the right side of the drill motor housing near the top, tryinng to power the drill after each side is tapped. If this method results in the motor running, it's liely that the brushes and springs may need replaced, but cleaning the brush holders may allow sufficient brush contact.. but the parts may still be required for a proper repair.

When removing brushes, it's a good practice to keep them apart so they can be put back in the holder they came out of.. and also to scratch a small mark on a long side of the brush to indicate the top or end of the motor so they can be put back in the correct orientation.

Aside from loose connections or brush problems, it appears as though the motor is turned on/off by a relay on the circuit board. A click noise mat be noticeable when the start-stop buttons are pressed. Checking for correct operation of the relay can be performed a couple of different ways.. definitely check it with the power cord unplugged if you aren't familiar with working on powered equipment. If the relay doesn't appear to be reacting to the start-stop buttons, it may be faulty. If you can desolder the relay to remove it from the board, it can be checked out-of-circuit with an ohm meter and small power supply or magnet.

For testing with power applied, only if one is experienced and familiar with safe testing methods.. using a 120V light bulb instead of the motor, connected to the circuit board motor leads would allow the relay check to be performed without the additional concern regarding rotating parts during testing.

-- Cheers, WB .............

The Magnet itself seems to work, but the drill portion doesn't. Not counting when it turned on a couple of times two days ago, making me think that there was a possible intermittent break somewhere in the connections.

I opened it up and tinkered with the safety switch adjustment screw, but that wasn't the problem.

The safety switch is located on the bottom of the drill. The bottom of the drill must be flat against the metal surface in order for the drill to power on. (See the two buttons at the bottom):

The third button in the center is I believe also a safety switch that will cut power to the motor if the drill's magnetic base drifts as much as 1/2".

I assumed that there is nothing wrong with the AC cord because the magnet portion works, so using my Fluke 79III multimeter on the Ohm setting I tested the start and the stop buttons. There was activity on the Multimeter's display screen when I press either, so I assume that there is no break, at least as far as where those leads connect to the circuit board.

Would it be plausible to re-flow the solder on the circuit board in case there is a cold solder joint somewhere?

I can't travel several hours round trip to spend $65 an hour at an authorized repair location, so any advice on how to proceed would be appreciated.

Thanks.

Darren Harris Staten Island, New York.

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The Magnet itself seems to work, but the drill portion doesn't. Not counting when it turned on a couple of times two days ago, making me think that there was a possible intermittent break somewhere in the connections.

I opened it up and tinkered with the safety switch adjustment screw, but that wasn't the problem.

The safety switch is located on the bottom of the drill. The bottom of the drill must be flat against the metal surface in order for the drill to power on. (See the two buttons at the bottom):

The third button in the center is I believe also a safety switch that will cut power to the motor if the drill's magnetic base drifts as much as 1/2".

I assumed that there is nothing wrong with the AC cord because the magnet portion works, so using my Fluke 79III multimeter on the Ohm setting I tested the start and the stop buttons. There was activity on the Multimeter's display screen when I press either, so I assume that there is no break, at least as far as where those leads connect to the circuit board.

Would it be plausible to re-flow the solder on the circuit board in case there is a cold solder joint somewhere?

I can't travel several hours round trip to spend $65 an hour at an authorized repair location, so any advice on how to proceed would be appreciated.

Thanks.

Darren Harris Staten Island, New York.

+++++

'scuse my ingnorance , but do the magnets in the base really hold the drill static on to sheet steel, opposing all the reactive torques and forces of large cutting bits?

when it turned on a couple of times two days ago, making me think that there was a possible intermittent break somewhere in the connections.

wasn't the problem.

drill must be flat against the metal surface in order for the drill to power on. (See the two buttons at the bottom):

power to the motor if the drill's magnetic base drifts as much as 1/2".

portion works, so using my Fluke 79III multimeter on the Ohm setting I tested the start and the stop buttons. There was activity on the Multimeter's display screen when I press either, so I assume that there is no break, at least as far as where those leads connect to the circuit board.

is a cold solder joint somewhere?

repair location, so any advice on how to proceed would be appreciated.

Have you asked on news:rec.crafts.metalworking where there are a number of people who own these tools?

Yup, they surely do !! Widely used in construction work in my day (palentonic :-) .

Some photos of a similar drill, in case the wiring isn't clear. (What a mess):

--
Jeff Liebermann     jeffl@cruzio.com 
150 Felker St #D    http://www.LearnByDestroying.com 
Santa Cruz CA 95060 http://802.11junk.com 
Skype: JeffLiebermann     AE6KS    831-336-2558

Lots of videos showing such drills in action on YouTube: If for some reason, the magentic base disconnects from the base metal being drilled, a lift interlock switch will kill the power to the drill motor. The usual mistake is to leave some chips or debris between the magnetic base and the base metal.

--
Jeff Liebermann     jeffl@cruzio.com 
150 Felker St #D    http://www.LearnByDestroying.com 
Santa Cruz CA 95060 http://802.11junk.com 
Skype: JeffLiebermann     AE6KS    831-336-2558

se1f7add1.jpg

there is a cold solder joint somewhere?

Here are the Manuals for my model:

After taking out the screws I couldn't figure out how to separate the motor housing from the slide. (I tried using a rubber mallet to knock it loose). But I unscrewed the top plate and saw where the brushes were located and t hen got to them by unscrewing the small circular plastic covers at opposite sides near the top of the drill housing.

ushes_zps466ba0d6.jpg

How do I know they are still good? (The rectangular brushes are about 1/2" x 5/8" x 3/16").

Anyway, I put the drill back together and while progressively manipulating the safety switch adjustment between power up tries I got to the point wher e the drill would turn on, which it wouldn't do before.

So I'm still at a loss as to what the problem was. I probably didn't re-ins ert the brushes *exactly* the way I took them out and was wondering if that might be the reason it is working now.

What other procedures should I undertake before I start re-flowing solder o n the control PCB? (Since I have to sell the drill I want to be sure it is working properly). Can anyone tell me where I can find new brushes?

Thanks a lot.

Darren Harris Staten Island, New York.

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I did replace the brushes in the same holders they came out of, but *may* h ave put one or both back in upside down from how they came out.

Also,I only use my multimeters for the basics and don't really know their f unctions in depth. So I can only note whether or not the display changes an d the number read-outs. But not necessarily what they mean unless I'm just measuring AC or DC voltage or something like that.

Thanks.

Darren Harris Staten Island, New York.

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nting when it turned on a couple of times two days ago, making me think tha t there was a possible intermittent break somewhere in the connections.

t that wasn't the problem.

the drill must be flat against the metal surface in order for the drill to power on. (See the two buttons at the bottom):

ill cut power to the motor if the drill's magnetic base drifts as much as 1 /2".

et portion works, so using my Fluke 79III multimeter on the Ohm setting I t ested the start and the stop buttons. There was activity on the Multimeter' s display screen when I press either, so I assume that there is no break, a t least as far as where those leads connect to the circuit board.

e there is a cold solder joint somewhere?

orized repair location, so any advice on how to proceed would be appreciate d.

Yes. And I didn't receive a single response, which is why I posted here. :- )

Darren Harris Staten Island, New York.

(...)

5/8" x 3/16").

They look good, except for the left brush, which looks a little chipped. Shake out the debris from the motor, and put the brushes back exactly the way they came out. Then, put an ohms guesser between the brush contacts. Leave the insulating caps off, compress the springs with the ohms guesser probes, and measure the resistance. I don't know exactly what resistance to expect, but my guess is somewhere between 2 and 5 ohms. (I can measure a similar drill tomorrow if you want). What I'm looking for is a resistance that is much higher than the 2-5 ohms, which would indicate an open in the rotor or stator windings.

Progress, I guess. Now you have an intermittent drill, instead of a repaired drill. You should spend the time finding the culprit. The cracked edge of the brush is an important clue. If the broken piece somehow got wedged between the brush and the commutator, that would produce a no motor run situation. Look for a corresponding gouge in the commutator and clean all the junk out of the motor with an air hose. Watch out not to get anything wedged between the outside of the rotor and the stator. If there's some magnetized junk in there, make a cardboard shim and push it out.

I'm about 80% sure that it's somehow related to the brushed. If you put them back differently from where they were extracted, you run the risk of either gouging the commutator, or wearing down the brushes prematurely.

Take digital photos so that you can put the mess of wires back together.

Important: Looking at the age, my guess(tm) is that it's Lead-Tin

60/40 solder, and not the RoHS crap. Try a small piece of Lead-Tin on a solder pad. If it turns dull gray and rough looking, it's the wrong solder. It should be fairly smooth, shiny, and of course, strong when done.

I can't tell for sure from the photos or manuals, but there appears to be a relay in the circuit. If so, the contacts should be inspected and possibly burnished. If severely pitted, replace the relay.

Google for "hougen 17621 carbon brush set" Please verify that the 17621 is the correct brush set for your drill.

--
Jeff Liebermann     jeffl@cruzio.com 
150 Felker St #D    http://www.LearnByDestroying.com 
Santa Cruz CA 95060 http://802.11junk.com 
Skype: JeffLiebermann     AE6KS    831-336-2558

The picture of the brush/spring assemblies shows that they appear to be normal.. although the length of the original/new brushes is unknown.

When putting the brushes back in the holders, if there was adequate length that caused some slight contact pressure (spring sticking out when brush is fully inserted), then the brushes should be long enough to operate the motor.

Dust and debris in and around the brush holders should be removed as a standard practice when servicing motors.

The brush on the left in the picture appears to have been arcing, probably on the trailing edge. If the brush/commutator contact area is visible from the outside, see if there is a lot more arcing at one brush than there is at the other.

Since the brushes may not be installed in their original positions now, by viewing the normal rotational direction of the armature (by running the motor or by turning the tool's spindle in the proper direction) it should be possible to remount that chipped brush in it's original position with the dark/chipped edge as the trailing edge.

Brushes in power tools don't usually contact the commutator at precisely 90 degrees, so the concave area is normally off-center on the brush (since the brushes tend to drift in the direction of rotation). That may help finding the original position of the brushes.

I've seen motor troubleshooting web pages showing brush defect pictures, arcing illustrations and corresponding faults, but can't seem to find a decent one now. Maybe someone else has a saved location they could recommend.

There are numerous problems that are indicated by excessive brush arcing, chipping/erosion or pitting. Several faults can only be confirmed by a motor repair shop or a knowlegeable tech with a motor growler and other test equipment.

It may be worthwhile to closely examine the board soldering with good light and a magnifier, and touch-up/reflow any cracked or abnormal looking joints. I regularly use lead solder to reflow lead-free solder because it produces reliable connections.

I'm not a manufacturer, distributor or exporter and I have composed a sworn statement stating that I will not eat or snort any of my electronic gear. Let the recycler sort it out.

--
Cheers, 
WB 
............. 


 wrote in message  
news:12c89036-03fa-4e24-8ce7-d411df99b1cf@googlegroups.com... 

I did replace the brushes in the same holders they came out of, but *may*  
have put one or both back in upside down from how they came out. 

Also,I only use my multimeters for the basics and don't really know their  
functions in depth. So I can only note whether or not the display changes  
and the number read-outs. But not necessarily what they mean unless I'm just  
measuring AC or DC voltage or something like that. 

Thanks. 

Darren Harris 
Staten Island, New York.

snipped-for-privacy@mail.con.com wrote: > > > > > > I have a Hougen Magnetic Drill that is not working. > > >

> > > > > > The Magnet itself seems to wor k, but the drill portion doesn't. Not counting when it turned on a couple o f times two days ago, making me think that there was a possible intermitten t break somewhere in the connections. > > > > > > I opened it up and tinker ed with the safety switch adjustment screw, but that wasn't the problem. >

ocated on the bottom of the drill. The bottom of the drill must be flat aga inst the metal surface in order for the drill to power on. (See the two but tons at the bottom): > > >

> > > > > > The thi rd button in the center is I believe also a safety switch that will cut pow er to the motor if the drill's magnetic base drifts as much as 1/2". > > >

gnet portion works, so using my Fluke 79III multimeter on the Ohm setting I tested the start and the stop buttons. There was activity on the Multimete r's display screen when I press either, so I assume that there is no break, at least as far as where those leads connect to the circuit board. > > > h ttp://i290.photobucket.com/albums/ll257/Statenislander/Tools/HougenStart-St opConnectors_zps3495c450.jpg > > > > > > Would it be plausible to re-flow t he solder on the circuit board in case there is a cold solder joint somewhe re? > > > > > > I can't travel several hours round trip to spend $65 an hou r at an authorized repair location, so any advice on how to proceed would b e appreciated. > > > > > > Thanks. > > > > > > Darren Harris > > > Staten I sland, New York. > > > > > > Have you asked on news:rec.crafts.metalworking where there are a > > number of people who own these tools? Yes. And I did n't receive a single response, which is why I posted here. :-) Darren Harri s Staten Island, New York.

I turned it on and wacked it a few times with a rubber mallet over the cour se of a week and it worked every time.

So I guess it is ok for now. At least I'll know what to do the next time so mething like this happens.

Thanks a lot.

Darren Harris Staten Island, New York.

snipped-for-privacy@mail.con.com wrote:> > > > > > I have a Hougen Magnetic Drill that is not working.> > >

but that wasn't the problem.> > >

magnet portion works, so using my Fluke 79III multimeter on the Ohm setting I tested the start and the stop buttons. There was activity on the Multimeter's display screen when I press either, so I assume that there is no break, at least as far as where those leads connect to the circuit board.> > >

news:rec.crafts.metalworking where there are a> > number of people who own these tools? Yes. And I didn't receive a single response, which is why I posted here. :-) Darren Harris Staten Island, New York.

of a week and it worked every time.

something like this happens.

Classic symptom of brushes sticking in their holders. May be brushes worn so much they jam in the holders.

Paul

Heheh.. sometimes referred to as Percussive Maintenance.

-- Cheers, WB .............

I turned it on and wacked it a few times with a rubber mallet over the course of a week and it worked every time.

So I guess it is ok for now. At least I'll know what to do the next time something like this happens.

Thanks a lot.

Darren Harris Staten Island, New York.

Well, what I meant was that wacking it with the rubber mallet didn't make it

*stop* working. It has worked perfectly since I put the brushes back in.

Darren Harris Staten Island, New York.

Just joined in never too late.

1) check brushes ,blow out top of motor through Cover plate at the top turning motor with hand Sand brushes with light sand paper 2) If Magnet comes on then you have Power to circuit board. Unplug remove p ower. Remove 4 screws from cover plate where power cord comes in. Unplug bl ack and white wires going to motor. Hook power directly to black and white wires. Motor will run if not there?s a short on the top cord or the field cord is burnt. But then you would smell burnt wires. So check for sh ort But before you do that the black and white wired you unplug from circuit bo ard put you tester on AC voltage and hook up press green to start assuming power is on. MAKE YOUR CIRCUIT BOARD IS INSULATED (not touching metal) circ uit board can short. when you press the green start you wound get 120 volts which means your circuit board is good if not getting any power there then board is bad. I don?t do boards so I cant say. Board is around $12

1. Thanks for letting me post my 2 cent wort Please feel free to cal