C Compiler for 8051 microcontroler

Rafael Dias schrieb:

uC.

... then look at

There are many links.

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uC.

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If you're serious about your work and don't want to waste time, the best one I've used is from Keil. Would trust nothing else.

-Z

8051 uC.

Keil is very good. Haven't tried others.

Keil is good but costs $$$. Decent freeware one is SDCC (small device c ompiler)

go here:

In article , James Miles writes

Yes

Well it is free.. but hardley decent yet.

Try the Dunfeild compiler for a reasonable inexpensvie C compiler for the 8051

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Here we go again!

SDCC *is* decent (depending upon your definition of decent :).

I've used it to drive a LCD display via a AT89C2051, drive a stepper, and various other things. It has an excellent PC simulator, and quite a few libraries.

SDCC is Free and unlimited.

It's also very stable and works nicely with all the Unix toolsets etc.

Sure it's not as smooth as Keil stuff, but it's most certainly usable right *now* and has been for years.

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Not enough information. If he is a hobbyist, suggesting Keil is as inappropriate as farting loudly in church.

The eval mode is not even worth talking about. Dunfield might be OK, but I've never heard anyone around here talk about it, good or otherwise.

[...]

never

Thats because I don't believe in using public usenet groups to promote my products (see my faq's) - I take it to email asap (exception when people start thinking I don't exist anymore :-) - been in the business since 83.

Regards,

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inappropriate

never

I wasn't talking about self promotion, but rather what others say. I was going to try your compiler, which was one listed on the Cygnal site (at least at one time), but I'm not expert enough to tell if the compiler is doing good job. Time has been a severe constraint in the past, maybe less now, and maybe I'll have more opportunity to learn the micro better and try your tool set.

If I had to go just on what people offered here, and a few other places, I would not even have a starting opinion on your products.

Zelda (SDCC) has fleas. Not just a few, and not tiny ones either.

If you can sweet talk LEsly into sending you an evaluation copy of Keil, do so.

Regards, Murray. _____________________________________ Murray R.Van Luyn Computer Engineering Consultant. Ph: +618 9354 1375 E-mail: snipped-for-privacy@iinet.net.au snipped-for-privacy@cs.curtin.edu.au

ompiler)

I believe we are discussing C compilers Mr Van Luyn, and not pets.

Perhaps you would be so kind as to be specific as to what kinds of problems you believe the OP will encounter using SDCC ?

Why beg for proprietary software when Free Software (GPL'd) is available as your *right* ?

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never

I use it to support the COMM-Links (oldest code is ~15 years old) on my HCS project. I use it under dos-emu on my Linux box and it works very well and it's very inexpensive. I'm happy with it.

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Please feel free to defend SDCC Terry. Varied and divergent opinion is a very good thing. Just as you are free to state your opinion, readers of this forum are free to formulate opinions and take actions based on your recommendations.

Zelda is fine if you want to write a few lines of code. I have found however that for larger programs, the 'mystery' error rate increases exponentially with the size of the code. I can't really tell you what's wrong with it - maybe 'starts out happy, but eventually won't go' sums it up appropriately. I'm not beyond stating that my experience may have been due to inexperience. I wonder whether contributions to the associated manual from experienced users such as yourself, wouldn't have helped to avoid some of the more obvious pitfalls in Zelda's use.

The price is right, and I have a great deal of admiration for the clever developers responsible for SDCCs creation. Use it though, and if you are a sane and rational person, I categorically guarantee that you will abandon it within a very short space of time. Failing that, I guess you could always defend it to your dying breath.

I'm sorry Terry. I genuinely just don't want anyone else to waste the 3 painful weeks that I did.

Regards, Murray. ___________________________________ Murray R.Van Luyn Revolutionary Urban Guerilla. Ph: +618 9354 1375 E-mail: snipped-for-privacy@iinet.net.au snipped-for-privacy@cs.curtin.edu.au

Thank you, I do :)

Of course, and I urge those readers to intelligently examine what you have said and evidence proffered, before they assume what you write is gosphel.

Perhaps. It may also be another way of describing, fear uncertainty and doubt ?

Free Software is different to closed source, it requires that we *all* make it better by verifying bugs and then if we can't fix it ourselves, lodging a bug report with the maintainer.

It seems to me (and I could be wrong) that you used SDCC, didn't know what you were doing, didn't read the manual and just gave up ?

Did you determine what wasn't happening correctly, did you submit a bug report ?

Such an admission may not have gone astray in your original post I submit.

We all have only so much time Mr Van Luyn, and mine is committed elsewhere right now, although as you can see I do have a short article regarding SDCC and screen shot on my current web page.

For a few years I also maintained a page that described using the SDCC simulator with DDD the GUI debuger.

SDCC is used by many people and the SDCC list is highly active. So I can't take your predictions seriously.

I haven't had anything to defend in this case, I simply asked for reasons regarding your negative claims of SDCC, and so far you have not offered one tangible reason.

Your SDCC inexperience hardly qualifies as valid criticism imho.

I understand and sympathise Mr Van Luyn, however experiences differ, as do users of software.

Please be aware Mr Van Luyn, I'm not trying to start a flame war with you over this, all I'm asking for are *reasons* for your criticism of SDCC.

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In article , Terry writes

Therefore YOU as the user are responsible for all the code you ship compiled with it. The FDA rules on software will make it cheaper to use the Keil than the SDCC for any medical project.

I have come across other experienced embedded engineers who tried SDCC and have found problems with it. It is apparently better than it was but nowhere near the same level of the commercial 8051 compilers.

Why? I am paid to write code NOT debug the tools. This is the problem with this sort of tool. If you find a bug you are expected to spend time and effort fixing it or hoping that some one else might some time.

This is the point. The commercial companies do fix problems and work with customers. Though a LOT of the problem sI see are due to programmers who don't fully understand embedded C or the 8051 architecture that well. Much less how a compiler actually works.

Many people use SDCC for two very important technical reasons.... it's free and it runs on Linux..... the other one is that it is open source. This makes it UN-USABLE for much of the work I do. I have no guarantees that it has not been "adjusted" buy some well meaning idiot.

Has it been run on either of the main C test suites? How does it cope with the paranoia test? What testing has been done on it?

How much experience does he need to know it doesn't work?

It doesn't work anything like as well as the commercial compilers, code density etc. It seems to have some serious short comings when compared to commercial compilers. It has not AFAIK passed anything like the Plum-Hall or Perennial tests.

Does it correctly handle structures? (It was mentioned to me a couple of days ago it did not)

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Hi Murray, I was wondering if that was recent. According to the CVS log quite a lot has been done recently.

Regards Robert

Thanks Robert.

Yes this was just a few weeks ago. I started out with the DOS version

1.2.2.1 2001/09/19 (oh, now I'm really asking for it, aren't I?), and then moved to the latest Linux distribution. No improvement I'm afraid. I also had a brief look at the CVS source. Highly impressive, but I couldn't figure out how to compile it for my system.

I also tried Wickenhauser's C compiler. I found it a bit quirky, but an overall improvement. I was a bit worried about the manual's claims that it produced smaller, faster code, though. My programs always ran slow. It looked like pretty good value.

Regards, Murray. _____________________________________ Murray R.Van Luyn Revolutionary Urban Guerilla. Ph: +618 9354 1375 E-mail: snipped-for-privacy@iinet.net.au snipped-for-privacy@cs.curtin.edu.au

Are you not responsible for your code Chris ?

I don't doubt you, but how is the FDA relevant in this thread ?

I understand that, and I haven't claimed it is.

A bug report is *not* debuging the tools.

Your ignorance about Free Software is astounding at times.

For every current Free Software package there is always a maintainer, and that person or persons fixes bugs.

Do they ?

They certainly take your money. They certainly go broke or get taken over and dismantled, they certainly have key personel leave etc.

Why ?

You have no such guarantees with proprietary software either. In fact you have *less* guarantees as you don't have the source to check what's changed.

Good questions, how do you answer them for your proprietary software ?

Are you claiming that SDCC "doesn't work" now ?

I don't doubt you, but why is this an issue ?

That remark is so general, I'll just ignore it.

Irrelevant for Free Software because of the proprietary nature of these test suites.

The Plum Hall test suite requires licensing and hence it is not acceptable to Free Software. Same for the PERENNIAL Validation Suites.

Perhaps you would like to show why it does not ?

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              Kind Regards from Terry 
    My Desktop is powered by GNU/LinuX, Gentoo-1.4_rc2   
         New Homepage: http://milkstone.d2.net.au/          
 ** Linux Registration Number: 103931,  http://counter.li.org **