Wow! The solution to our energy needs....

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Wow!  The solution to our energy needs....

<http://www.dailymail.co.uk/sciencetech/article-5440613/Incredible-device-generates-electricity-air.html

"Experts at the Massachusetts Institute of Technology's (MIT)
department of chemical engineering are behind the find."

(Which is part of the reason I cut MIT out of my will nine years ago.)
        
                                        ...Jim Thompson
--  
| James E.Thompson                                 |    mens     |
| Analog Innovations                               |     et      |
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Re: Wow! The solution to our energy needs....
On 02/28/2018 07:59 PM, Jim Thompson wrote:
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Gah.  "Thermal resonator", forsooth.  BITD even MIT engineers knew that  
you can't get a resonance out of the heat equation because it has a  
real-valued, first-order time dependence.

Cheers

Phil Hobbs


--  
Dr Philip C D Hobbs
Principal Consultant
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Re: Wow! The solution to our energy needs....
On 01/03/2018 01:08, Phil Hobbs wrote:
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They are engineers not mathematicians so I would bet on "NOT".
For process engineers PID process controllers work by Magyck.

I rather liked the thin film passive device that cools itself in direct  
sunlight and there is now a derivative of that work that might even be  
viable. Selective absorbtion of thermal IR and reflection of most near  
IR and visible light to lose more by radiation than it gains from solar  
flux.

http://www.sciencemag.org/news/2017/02/cheap-plastic-film-cools-whatever-it-touches-10-c

(the original was epitaxial growth bandpass filter technology)

I do wonder how well it works when it gets mucky though.

--  
Regards,
Martin Brown

Re: Wow! The solution to our energy needs....
On Wednesday, February 28, 2018 at 8:09:09 PM UTC-5, Phil Hobbs wrote:
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It sounds like they are storing energy (in some wax?) and then  
releasing it later.  ~1mW for a few hours a day is hardly going to set  
the world on fire.  

George H.  
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Re: Wow! The solution to our energy needs....
On 03/01/2018 08:28 AM, George Herold wrote:
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Cool facts: the physics of heat and heat transfer is not completely  
understood by science. The undergraduate textbook version of "The Heat  
Equation" is wrong, it admits information propagation faster than light.  
Modifications of that equation to "correct" that problem upgrade it to a  
second order dependence in time, but formulations of equations like that  
then sometimes appear to violate the laws of thermodynamics.


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Re: Wow! The solution to our energy needs....
On Thursday, March 1, 2018 at 1:08:50 PM UTC-5, bitrex wrote:
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I'm not sure what you are on about?  Is this in the article or something
you have looked at?  Heat is energy and that's pretty well understood,
unless you are talking about theoretical temperatures during the big bang.

To understand metals/electrons you need some QM.  
The Sommerfeld theory of metals  
does a decent job.  I went looking... this might be OK.  
https://www2.physics.ox.ac.uk/sites/default/files/BandMT_10.pdf

George H.  
  
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Re: Wow! The solution to our energy needs....
On Thu, 1 Mar 2018 11:32:26 -0800 (PST), George Herold

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bitrex is an uneducated twit... at best spouting stuff from high
school science classes.

Do us all a favor and stop responding to him.
        
                                        ...Jim Thompson
--  
| James E.Thompson                                 |    mens     |
| Analog Innovations                               |     et      |
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Re: Wow! The solution to our energy needs....
On 03/01/2018 02:32 PM, George Herold wrote:
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People who don't keep in mind that thermodynamics, classical  
electrodynamics, and continuum mechanics are asymptotic theories valid  
only in the limit of large systems tend to make those sorts of mistakes.  
  You take it outside its region of validity and get nonsense, but that  
isn't the theory's fault.

In relativistic quantum mechanics, the wave function doesn't go  
identically to zero at the light cone boundary, so technically there's a  
nonzero chance of some object traversing a spacelike interval  
(propagating faster than light).  However, the wave function drops off  
as a very steep exponential outside the light cone, so causality  
violations are prevented.

You can't get there/then from here/now.

Cheers

Phil Hobbs

--  
Dr Philip C D Hobbs
Principal Consultant
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Re: Wow! The solution to our energy needs....
On Thursday, March 1, 2018 at 4:01:52 PM UTC-5, Phil Hobbs wrote:
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Are you 1/2 talking to bitrex?  I certainly don't expect  
theories/models to be perfect..  
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I started to audit a course on relativistic QM, bought the book,
but had to drop out.  I didn't have the time (smarts) to keep up.  
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Well QM is non-local, that is weird enough for me.  

Do you every read the backreaction blog?  

George H.  
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Re: Wow! The solution to our energy needs....
On 03/01/2018 09:38 PM, George Herold wrote:
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I'm agreeing with you, and amplifying the comment about the heat  
equation predicting superluminal heat propagation, which is cracked.  
Continuous diffusion isn't just exponentially small at short times and  
long distances, it's Gaussian (exp(-x**2)) small.;

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Yeah, I dropped the course too, but pretty late--Stanford let you ask to  
be graded "incomplete".  My study partner flaked on me, and as I had a  
wife and baby at the time, I really needed to graduate.  It wasn't  
something I was ever going to use unless I became a prof (which I  
expected to do at the time).

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It's a little less weird if you think about what it means for something  
to exist.  IIRC QM nonlocality mostly affects things like photons that  
don't qualify as existing--a photon is a property of something else.  
But it's still weird.  Just electrodynamics is weird enough for me.

I don't take the EPR stuff that seriously, because physicists are,  
almost to a man, horrible at philosophy.  I think that it's because they  
have no respect for the history of ideas, and so keep going down the  
same old rabbit holes that were explored 2000 years ago.

Einstein was a really bad philosopher.

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Once in awhile--it's on my RSS feeds someplace.  Fun.

Cheers

Phil Hobbs

--  
Dr Philip C D Hobbs
Principal Consultant
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Re: Wow! The solution to our energy needs....
On Friday, March 2, 2018 at 10:01:16 AM UTC-5, Phil Hobbs wrote:
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Huh, photons aren't enough for you, you need a non-local electron
experiment?  I've no idea, but some spin determined electron system
might be possible.  I guess you can argue that the spin 'coupling' is  
by some weird photon (E-M thing).  At which point I shrug,
I treat photons as things, which for me is the right way to think
in lots of situations.

I dream of making cheap fast NIR avalanche PD's to do the Bell
inequality experiment.  It's like the next step from two slit interference.
      
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She writes well for the layman (which I consider myself)
I'm fascinated with this idea (now expressed in my own crude  
language) that dark matter (and dark energy*) is some kind  
of MoGR modified general relativity.  We need the next  
Einstein... (a link to the neutrino mass, would be good too.)  
Who cares if she's a good philosopher.  She just needs  
to have a good idea.

George H.  

*my understanding of GR is less than that of rel. QM,
 AIUI GR already has the dark energy term, we'd like  
to understand it's value.    
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Re: Wow! The solution to our energy needs....
On Saturday, March 3, 2018 at 7:07:34 AM UTC+11, George Herold wrote:
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Single electrons going through a double slit produce a diffraction pattern.

It's easy enough to keep the electron flow down to a level that the chance of there being a second electron around when one electron is going through both slits is very low.

<snip>

--  
Bill Sloman, Sydney

Re: Wow! The solution to our energy needs....
On 03/03/18 02:43, snipped-for-privacy@ieee.org wrote:
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[Snip!]

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Reference please?

Jeroen Belleman

Re: Wow! The solution to our energy needs....
On Sat, 03 Mar 2018 16:05:49 +0100, Jeroen Belleman

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The grass must be awfully green around Slowman's place >:-}
        
                                        ...Jim Thompson
--  
| James E.Thompson                                 |    mens     |
| Analog Innovations                               |     et      |
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Re: Wow! The solution to our energy needs....
On Sunday, March 4, 2018 at 3:14:02 AM UTC+11, Jim Thompson wrote:
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http://iopscience.iop.org/article/10.1088/1367-2630/15/3/033018

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I wonder what Jim had in what passes for his mind. If he wasn't senile, he too could have used google to find the reference.

--  
Bill Sloman, Sydney

Re: Wow! The solution to our energy needs....

On 03/03/18 02:43, snipped-for-privacy@ieee.org wrote:
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[Snip!]

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https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wave%E2%80%93particle_duality

"At least one physicist considers the "wave-duality" as not being an  
incomprehensible mystery. L.E. Ballentine, Quantum Mechanics, A Modern  
Development, p. 4, explains:"

"    When first discovered, particle diffraction was a source of great  
puzzlement. Are "particles" really "waves?" In the early experiments, the  
diffraction patterns were detected holistically by means of a photographic  
plate, which could not detect individual particles. As a result, the notion  
grew that particle and wave properties were mutually incompatible, or  
complementary, in the sense that different measurement apparatuses would be  
required to observe them. That idea, however, was only an unfortunate  
generalization from a technological limitation. Today it is possible to  
detect the arrival of individual electrons, and to see the diffraction  
pattern emerge as a statistical pattern made up of many small spots  
(Tonomura et al., 1989). Evidently, quantum particles are indeed particles,  
but whose behaviour is very different from classical physics would have us  
to expect."

Jeroen, there is no debate by any physicist that experiments can fire  
"particles" one at a time so that they can't interfere with each other.

As far as, "both at once" for a single electron magically splitting ,  
despite much nonsense from pop accounts, such an event contradicts QM, for  
example, as explained here:

http://www.kevinaylward.co.uk/qm/quantum_mechanics.xht

To wit: The probability of two simultaneous, necessarily orthogonal,  
Eigenvectors occurring, is zero. End of story.

-- Kevin Aylward
http://www.anasoft.co.uk - SuperSpice
http://www.kevinaylward.co.uk/ee/index.html


Re: Wow! The solution to our energy needs....
On Sunday, March 4, 2018 at 2:05:59 AM UTC+11, Jeroen Belleman wrote:
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http://iopscience.iop.org/article/10.1088/1367-2630/15/3/033018

I had thought that it had been done long ago, but this was published on the 13th March 2013.  

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Double-slit_experiment

gives a bunch of references

http://adsabs.harvard.edu/abs/1973AmJPh..41..639D

takes it back to 1973 for electrons (but they might not be guaranteed single), It has also been done with buckyballs (C60 buckmeisterfullerene molecules).

https://www.univie.ac.at/qfp/research/matterwave/c60/index.html

though again there doesn't seem to be any guarantee that there was only one molecule going through the slits at any time.

--  
Bill Sloman, Sydney

Re: Wow! The solution to our energy needs....
On 03/02/2018 10:00 AM, Phil Hobbs wrote:
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The issue isn't only one of causality violation, straight Fick's law and  
anything derived from it also implies that the current is equal to the  
diffusive flux, always, but it's not hard to think up hypothetical  
macroscopic mediums/domains that don't themselves violate any classical  
physics where that cannot be the case. They're macroscopic and even  
non-relativistic though, shouldn't one be able to use a classical  
physics equation to describe their behavior?

The "outside domain of validity" objection is fine in moderation but IMO  
when one starts applying it with regularity to many situations and using  
it to handwave away all the "corner cases" it becomes just a synonym for  
"we don't really understand what's going on here" like e.g. why  
relativity and QM are incompatible.


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Re: Wow! The solution to our energy needs....
Well ...(more thread shift).. QM and relativity are compatible.  It was Dirac who got that started and 'discovered' antimatter.  Quantum gravity is what no one can do.  

George H.

Re: Wow! The solution to our energy needs....
On Thursday, March 1, 2018 at 1:01:52 PM UTC-8, Phil Hobbs wrote:
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  You just reminded me of evanescent wave transfer between almost-touching prisms set up for total internal reflection. Evanescent waves "aren't real" but can transfer information. IIRC there was at one time some argument about how fast they propagate.

  But then that's a near-field effect and they tend to bend the rules anyway.

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  Sometimes you can but you still can't beat c over useful distances.


  Mark L. Fergerson

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