It's that time of year again. I need a flat panel TV, simple HDMI interface.
somewhere between the 42 inch to 50+ inch size.
Would like GOOD color, and reliable operation - getting tired of 'throw-away' technology and would like to use for a while, or at least count on being able to use it for awhile.
What Manufacturer? What Model? Where to buy?
Anybody know, or has built up, some experience with these things, and can recommend a TV?
We bought a Vizio many years ago. Works flawlessly, great picture, decent price. It's 37" but that was because it's sufficient for us and we wanted it in a space where there wouldn't have been much more room for a larger TV. Neighbors then bought a much bigger version of this TV, also happy.
-- Regards, Joerg http://www.analogconsultants.com/
We have a 55" JVC. Great picture, but cantankerous when dealing with HDMI inputs that don't conform to the HDMI CEC specification. ...Jim Thompson
--
| James E.Thompson | mens |
| Analog Innovations | et |
| Analog/Mixed-Signal ASIC's and Discrete Systems | manus |
| San Tan Valley, AZ 85142 Skype: Contacts Only | |
| Voice:(480)460-2350 Fax: Available upon request | Brass Rat |
| E-mail Icon at http://www.analog-innovations.com | 1962 |
I love to cook with wine. Sometimes I even put it in the food.
Mis-remembered. The JVC is the 19" flat-screen in my office... the one I've complained of "popping noise".
In the family room we have a Phillips 55" (55PFL4706_F7)... that's the one that sometimes balks at the cable box, because the cable box doesn't do a proper CEC handshake. ...Jim Thompson
--
| James E.Thompson | mens |
| Analog Innovations | et |
| Analog/Mixed-Signal ASIC's and Discrete Systems | manus |
| San Tan Valley, AZ 85142 Skype: Contacts Only | |
| Voice:(480)460-2350 Fax: Available upon request | Brass Rat |
| E-mail Icon at http://www.analog-innovations.com | 1962 |
I love to cook with wine. Sometimes I even put it in the food.
One of my volunteer gigs I dealt with a lot of "scrapped" electronics. Saw *lots* of Vizio's and a few Samsungs. But, that doesn't let you draw any real conclusions:
- are there a lot of them because they are the most common brand?
- are there a lot of them because they are the *cheapest* offering?
- etc.
I really like plasma technology when it comes to viewability. But, big power hogs and have lots of special magnetics (and associated drivers) making them harder to maintain. Probably also more expensive to manufacture?
[I.e., this seems to be an "obsolescent" technology -- though that could just be because The Market is driven by folks looking for "cheap product"]Have you considered *reading* as a possible alternative source of entertainment? ;-)
I would go maube with Hitachi, but for only one reason. They support independent servicers to soem extent. Their technical website is free fro any shop, not just ASCs. I know of no other manufactuirer that does that.
I don't believe there is a big difference in reliability across the variuous brands anymore, which means logically one would do well to focus on servicability.
You shouldn't try to draw conclusions from so little information. My brother has a huge plasma TV he got some 6 years ago. I had heard that plasma loses its brightness over time. This TV is working just fine after many, many hours of operation. Plasma is actually less expensive these days because the LED lit LCD displays have better brightness and most people prefer the picture. So you *have* to have a lower price to sell a plasma set.
No, plasma just isn't capable of being as bright. People prefer a nice, bright display.
-- Rick
I bought a little 19" flat screen way back when. Brought it back because of lousy image quality. Bought an Insignia instead, much better. It's quite sad to see how discount brands eat the lunch of the old bellwethers. But that process already began over 30 years ago.
-- Regards, Joerg http://www.analogconsultants.com/
Of course it "works flawlessly", Joerg. You never turn it on! ;-)
We have had a Panasonic 42" Plasma TV for five years or so. It failed (power supply) after two years but they covered it, fully, under warranty, even though it was a year beyond the warranty. They had to send a tech about 100mi, too. I bought another a couple of years ago. No issues.
They're not so much of a power hog anymore. My first Panasonic ('07) consumed around 500W. The similar '12 model is under 150W. Both 42".
That's a lot of it. LED has improved things a lot but I still prefer the contrast of the plasma TVs.
Reading? ;-) (finally getting around to The Fountainhead - my second vacation-book).
Actually, since this dreaded transition to DTV it runs a lot. Reason is that we love old movies. Since those air during the day we tape them but my wife has to leave the TV running. It can be seen from the kitchen and that way she can see when a station pixelates out again, abort the recording, and program for the next time it airs. Often takes 3-4 attempts.
Some brands had major issues. For Samsung there are even several releases of aftermarket "re-capping kits" because they screwed up with the electrolytics. I like their netbooks, got one, but personally I would not buy a TV from them.
-- Regards, Joerg http://www.analogconsultants.com/
Yeah - power supplies and more specifically cheap ass capacitors seem to be the biggest failure mode in all TV's these days, doesn't matter if it's plasma or LCD.
I've got an Element ELCHW402 that lasted 18 months and the power supply went. Found a replacement board for $40 and snapped it in and it's been working fine ever since.
from Walmart on 9/20/2011 bought a 41 inch Element Electronics ELGFT401 $369.98, just as Element had gone through bankruptcy, too.
Works, ok, but now it has started acting 'funky' at turn on.
If HOT, continues to work. If COLD, has difficulty coming on. Screen comes up, sometimes, then light green frizzle, turn OFF turn ON and somtimes 'catches' or, somteimes doesn't and frizzles again adn again, or sometimes solid black screen, or sometimes solid light blue screen, or.... yesterday had to turn on and off over a period of something like half an hour, until got hot enough to stay on. Was so bad this time that the remote control failed, had to unplug and replug in to solve that one.
I first thought of bad caps, but why would that work best after heating up? Or, is that the way they work? esr high when cold and low when hot. Cold caps not good, hot caps good?
I thought at first it was the lead-free solder causing a problem. When cold, the parts shrink and lose contact; when hot, they expand and make good contact.
Any experience you guys?
I hear the Panasonic Vero IPS tv's are good in well lit rooms.
Cheers
I didn't read until about 8 years old and have never quite got the hang of it yet.
Or, like the phrase, "Why Johnny Can't Read, now in VHS!"
I suppose that phrase should be updated to become, "Why Johnny Can't Read, now on Blue-Ray!"
(sigh) I *really* enjoy reading and try to get about 500pp of "leisure" reading in, each week. Thankfully, I am nearsighted (?) so reading hasn't suffered with age.
Worst part about reading is getting to the "end" -- only to discover there's another *volume* (and, that it is not yet in print!! :< )
I find I *listen* to TV (more accurately, "DVD movies") more than I watch it. Relying on my memory of particular movies or shows to fill in the visual imagery in my head (while my eyes are busy typing something or reading something). As such, it would be tempting to just wire an audio amp to the DVD player and leave the TV, off.
OTOH, there are times when I hear something and want to look to see what's going on, etc. Or, classic shows that I simply
*must* sit and watch as the imagery is the most entertaining aspect!
If they ever built reliable electronics, I would be out of business. Thankfully, short life and unreliable electronics are epidemic, so I don't have to worry too much about income loss and supporting my decadent and lavish lifestyle.
Features, reliability, price. Pick any two.
Ever hear of diminishing returns? If you buy a commodity TV today, you can probably expect it to last at least 5 years, but no more than
10 years. However, if you want it to last 2x as long, you'll probably pay 4x up front. The curve is exponential, making long life products rather expensive. Features also come and go. Today's 1080i HD TV will be dumpster liner after the 4K Ultra HD TV's appear. Will your TV have wireless HDMI, 802.11ac, and/or WiGig? Might as well buy cheap junk, that lasts about 5 years, and not worry about obsolescence.That's rather difficult because anything that you can find at the big box stores (i.e. Costco, Walmart, etc) hasn't been on the market for more than maybe 3-6 months. There's no track record, service history, or long term survival experience. Even the models that appear to be older than a year have the same package and feature set, but often have the PCB's made by various low bidder contract manufacturers, with varying quality.
For what (little) it's worth, I've seen fairly good quality with Samsung and LG products, minor problems with Visio, and horrible experiences with Sharp, Panasonic, and Sony. No experience with other brands.
Incidentally, I've been playing with an LED projection display for TV. It's intended for a computer, but works well enough for (Netflix) video. Not the best quality picture, but it sure is convenient (and cheap).
-- Jeff Liebermann jeffl@cruzio.com 150 Felker St #D http://www.LearnByDestroying.com Santa Cruz CA 95060 http://802.11junk.com Skype: JeffLiebermann AE6KS 831-336-2558
How can you conclude "so little information"?
As to failures, of ~60 dead "big screen" TVs (I only look at things larger than 40" as most smaller sets are "cheap"), ignoring projection, I'd say ~40 were Vizio, 12 Samsung and the rest "onesies". What that says about failure *rates* I have no idea -- as I indicated above (it could be that Vizio has 99.3% of the market so seeing 66% of them in the failure population could say *good* things about them!)
Plasmas *do* have lots of special magnetics. Far more than an LCD or LED set. And, these are often only available from the manufacturer or as "pulls" from other sets (um, if it failed in THIS set, what sort of confidence do you have that a pull from some other AGED set will last much longer?)
They *do* draw a lot of power -- for a given size.
And, sell price bears no relationship to "cost to manufacture". If demand is down, price might be lowered but that doesn't imply *cost* is lowered. The opposite may, in fact, be true.
The biggest USE downside to plasma is burn-in (and weight).
*We* apparently don't. :> Nor are we keen on dedicating a whole wall to a "boob tube". E.g., I have a couple of projectors that could easily throw a 6-10 ft image. But, no desire for that sort of "domination" of the room. OTOH, I *would* like to explore using projection with a retractable screen (to get yet another big piece of kit out of the living room!)I rescue (personally) probably one "big screen" TV every two months. Once folks know you can fix things, you tend to find lots of stuff dumped on your doorstep (easier to bring it to Don than to haul it to the hazardous waste site!).
I don't mind as I see these as "distractions". *And*, things that I don't have any "skin in the game" -- if I can't fix it, it was garbage anyway! Some are delightful "teasers" (I've a small LCD that likes to blow a fuse. Yet, takes a very long time to do so and, if you probe the circuit, you'll see it is operating well below the rating of the fuse. As we don't *need* that set, there's no incentive to make time to fix it. Yet, no desire to dispose of a perfectly good *puzzle*!)
Each time I fix a set, we set it up and decide if we would like to "upgrade" (or downgrade or whatever) to this "new" set. So far, we've stuck with the old plasma set -- finding the picture "warmer" (though not using that term in the color temperature sense). So, the "new" set gets put aside until someone's kid is moving off to college or "first apartment" etc.
We probably spend more time "watching" the small set in the kitchen than anywhere else. Not much else you can do *while* eating :>
LED displays are far from perfect: I'm ok, but my neighbor gets headaches watching her new LED edge lighted TV. No problems with her previous CCFL backlighting.
When you're done with The Fountainhead, I recommend Altas Shrugged.
-- Jeff Liebermann jeffl@cruzio.com 150 Felker St #D http://www.LearnByDestroying.com Santa Cruz CA 95060 http://802.11junk.com Skype: JeffLiebermann AE6KS 831-336-2558
Exactly. The ESR of electrolytics goes down with increasing temperature at about a 10:1 change in ESR between 20C and 100C. Note that the flat lines in some of the graphs for low value caps were due to higher capacitive reactance at 100Khz than the ESR.
The 10:1 change is why some computers, monitors, TV's, can run forever with bulging or volcanic electrolytics, but refuse to turn back on after being unplugged and allowed to cool.
-- Jeff Liebermann jeffl@cruzio.com 150 Felker St #D http://www.LearnByDestroying.com Santa Cruz CA 95060 http://802.11junk.com Skype: JeffLiebermann AE6KS 831-336-2558
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